Doomscrolling - What It Is and How to Stop It
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About the Show
On this episode, Chuck Gaidica is joined by Jessica Chester, Licensed Clinical Social Worker and University Counselor of the Counseling and Psychological Services Department for Wayne State University. Together, they discuss what is doomscrolling and how to stop it.
In this episode of A Healthier Michigan Podcast, we explore:
- How doomscrolling can lead to feelings of anxiety and being unable to disconnect from the constant stream of information.
- Factors contributing to doomscrolling
- Warning signs of an unhealthy doomscrolling habit and strategies to break the habit
- Maintaining a balanced news diet and seeking out positive or constructive content to help protect one's mental health while staying informed.
Transcript
Chuck Gaidica:
Have you ever found yourself endlessly scrolling through social media? There's a term for that and it can have significant impact on your mental health. This is episode 170 of A Healthier Michigan Podcast, the podcast dedicated to navigating how we can improve our health and well-being through small, healthy habits that we can start implementing right now. I'm your host, Chuck Gaidica. On this episode, we're diving into the effects of something called doom scrolling and how it can affect our mental health, and how we can break away from this habit. With me today is licensed clinical social worker and university counselor of the Counseling and Psychological Services Department for Wayne State, Jessica Chester. Jessica, good to have you with us.
Jessica Chester:
Thank you so much. Good morning.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, good to have you. It's easy, I think, in today's world... Really any time, it's just maybe we didn't have these things. But it's easy now to feel overwhelmed by this constant flood of social media content that we get. And it seems from the moment we wake up, our devices are connected to this endless stream of updates and dings and bulletins, and sometimes leaves us feeling anxious and never able to disconnect from it. doom scrolling has become a widespread habit, and it's one that can take a toll on one's mental health is what we've been told in various ways. So I guess a good question is: What can we do to break this habit so we can be more mindful of how much time we're spending on this device or any device?
Jessica Chester:
Sure. So I think some of the things that we can do to be more mindful is really just that, being more mindful. So checking in with yourself. What's your mood like when you're online? Are you noticing that you're feeling more stressed as a result of being on social media, for example? Some other things that I think are important to be checking in on is, is this impacting your sleep? Are you not going to sleep because you're sitting online or is it the first thing that you're doing when you're waking up? I think really just paying attention to how social media use is impacting your daily habits is a really good place to start.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. We're using the examples of social media and doom scrolling obviously, but this could also be, even though it seems really old school, television news, it can be cable news, it can be radio, it can be really any source, but this is the one that you're talking about. And I find it interesting that you mention this idea of checking your mood because... Well, it's a question I'll have for you. Could your mood also be influencing the fact before you get into doom scrolling that that's where you're now heading for some kind of comfort? You know what I mean? It's not just that the doom scrolling is changing your mood, did your mood change, and then you're gravitating toward picking it up and going at it?
Jessica Chester:
Absolutely. And I think this is the biggest thing that we're seeing is not so much... Or I shouldn't say that we know it. This is such a new concept that we don't have a ton of research to be able to say exactly how it affects our brains necessarily, but what we do know is that people that are more prone to being depressed or anxious tend to be more profoundly impacted by doom scrolling. So if you are already in a place of having some depressive symptoms or symptoms of anxiety, we see that oftentimes people are turning to their device almost to validate that headspace that they're already in. So they're seeking out maybe more negative types of content or content that validates their worldview or their view of themselves.
And so then on certain apps, there's an algorithm. It starts to track the patterns of content that you're looking at and continues to give you more and more of that. So you're not seeing the other side of it, the more happy, the positive things, you're just continuing to get more and more of the same, and that can have a really big impact on your mood certainly.
Chuck Gaidica:
And that really can mess with us. Because I would assume even though we think we're in control while we're looking at stuff, those algorithms can start to affect our habits. You would think, well, I can break this habit, I'll just look for some happy news, but yet the algorithms are starting to send more stuff and you're falling into that trap. It is becoming a habit, huh?
Jessica Chester:
Absolutely. We know that social media in particular, these short-form type videos that we see in different reels or apps that have that type of feature that it lights up our brain very similar to a slot machine. And so we're constantly flipping to the next thing. Even if it's not something that's exciting, even if it's something that elicits a negative connotation, it is that dopamine-seeking behavior that keeps us really stuck and having a hard time breaking away.
Chuck Gaidica:
Is the shortness of those things part of the idea because we're... I've always been a visual learner, so I appreciate video, but I think I read, I don't know how many years ago, that the human attention span had dropped to eight seconds. Nine seconds is the attention span of a goldfish. And I thought, "Man, we really only have about eight seconds. That's all you got me for." And I think that's part of the reason we've seen these things go from 20 minutes to 10 minutes to 2 minutes, and now it's even less, right?
Jessica Chester:
Yes, absolutely. Anecdotally, and in terms of research, the one thing that we know for sure is that this short format type content that's out there is having a really big impact on our ability to focus. And I work with college students all day, so they're often speaking about how difficult it is to pay attention to a lecture or to even watch a normal movie or read a book. It's really difficult because they are so used to being able to obtain information in three minutes or less. And like you said, research is showing that our attention span is dropping every day. So it's hard to compete with that.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, over time... I guess it's changed because of streaming and just young people. You would know better than anybody else, anybody even watching traditional news on average. But back in the day, television news stations tried to change to an all-positive kind of a news approach, and they failed miserably. I mean, in under a year they just failed and they went back to the old way of doing things, which is the big stories at the top are negative and that's what gets you to tune in. Breaking news and all the stuff that screams at you, that's now become commonplace on social media. So that leads to this idea of doom scrolling where you just get stuck. How do you know you've got a habit that's becoming bad? How do you know that? What are the warning signs that you're falling into this cycle?
Jessica Chester:
Absolutely. And I think we spoke to some of these things earlier. I think that if you're noticing hours and hours are being spent just looking at information. Are people pointing it out to you? Are they saying that they're concerned? If you're a parent, has your child said something to you about how you're on your phone frequently or are you noticing that your ability to complete tasks or do the things that you need to be doing is being impacted by the fact that you can't break away from your phone? I think we can all empathize with that and are guilty of it. Occasionally, you have to go to the grocery store and you just get stuck looking at things and then hours go by. So just paying attention to are the things that you're supposed to be doing being impacted, but also how do you feel. Are you feeling badly after you're online for hours looking at negative news or negative content on the internet? I think that's the biggest indicator because it's different for everyone, but really paying attention to how do you feel after using it.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. And maybe also how you feel after you've unplugged from it for a while. Whether it's your own motivation to do that or somebody waved a flag going, "Hey, you're doing this a lot." Maybe you do feel better when you've detached, right?
Jessica Chester:
Absolutely.
Chuck Gaidica:
I often think of that idea of... You can unplug a vacuum and it'll work again tomorrow when you plug it back in. I mean, you can unplug from this thing. It's hard, but you can unplug from it and it'll work again tomorrow, right?
Jessica Chester:
Exactly. Oftentimes, we forget that this is such a new technology. We didn't have access to this. When I was a kid, that was not a thing. You had to actively go onto a computer and seek out information. We didn't have it in our pocket. We didn't have something to distract us constantly. You're right, it does work tomorrow. So taking a detox or a break or whatever you want to call it, is super important. And that's one of the things that we can do to try to break that cycle.
Chuck Gaidica:
And the name itself doom scrolling implies something that I think is important here, that this is not just you're hooked on National Geographic stuff. I mean, everybody has a hobby or an interest. This is doom, this is negative news that's attracting us. Is part of that because of the way we're wired as human beings that we say we don't want to hear it? La, la, la, I don't want to hear bad news, but yet we still want to peek in behind the curtain even if it's just for a couple seconds.
Jessica Chester:
I certainly think that that's an aspect of it, just being attracted to drama or sensationalist type things. We want to know. We seek it out. We seek out that information. And I think the other part of it is just the state of the world right now too. And this really became a big thing around COVID. It probably existed before that, but I think it all came into our collective consciousness around COVID. And so with that and just everything that's going on in the world, I think that... It changes people's outlook on things, and so they often seek out information to validate why they're feeling stressed or concerned or what have you. So a lot of that involves looking at other things that are unpleasant or doom and gloom.
Chuck Gaidica:
It's kind of interesting to me that also you don't see as many talk shows like this. The old days where there used to be fistfights and talk shows, I guess even some of the doctors will leave their names out that do a show. And I read some research a few years back that said a lot of people watch those shows because they literally want to find somebody in worse shape than they are in their own life. And I thought, "Man, psychologically that's a strange thing when you're..." You go searching for more doom, so your life seems more better.
Jessica Chester:
Yeah, absolutely. I think you hit it on the head. We just want to make sure we're okay. And so if other people are having it worse than us, then that means things aren't so bad with us. And I think with social media too, what we often see, especially with younger people, is there's so much comparing themselves to the lives of others. And even though that might not be the most negative content, but that can have a really big impact on your self-esteem and your self-worth. Because if you're seeing all of these people that have seemingly amazing lives and then you're feeling bad about yourself, that has a really big impact too.
Chuck Gaidica:
That's really interesting. And so there have to be practical strategies to decouple, to break this habit that we're feeling. And it's not just important news. And I'll give you a really interesting example. I've got two dogs. One's a Labradoodle. I think someday she's going to teach herself how to drive. That's how smart she is. But what's funny is I have haptics, I have sounds on my phone that when my camera doorbell see somebody come and deliver a package, it just goes bing. I don't even know which sound it is, it's just a bing. She now thinks that any sound that comes out of this phone means someone has come to the front door, which it doesn't, and she runs to the front door.
She's now been trained that a sound that comes off of my phone means, oh, we better go look. I knew that your episode was coming up for us to talk about. It's interesting that now, like Pavlov's dog, I have one, is trained to hear a sound, which tells me I'm trained to... Ding, oh, I better see. Is that a big news story? Is something happened during the politics season? What's going on? But we're all trained with that instinct now to snap our heads and look for something, aren't we?
Jessica Chester:
Yeah, absolutely. You're talking about conditioning.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah.
Jessica Chester:
So yeah, we're all conditioned now to the notifications that we receive on our phones, to this compulsion to check our social medias or different things. We've trained ourselves to be conditioned now to that.
Chuck Gaidica:
How do we untrain ourselves, Jessica?
Jessica Chester:
That's a good question. Again, for everybody, it's different, but I think there are some common things that are useful. A lot of people will talk about how they've tried to stop and they just can't help themselves. They just keep going back to it. So I think there's some easy, concrete, practical things that you can try if you haven't tried these already. The first thing, like we talked about earlier, just being mindful about your use. I think being mindful about where you are before you go online. So checking in with yourself, are you hungry? Are you thirsty? Are you bored? Are you tired? Why are you going to check whatever site? Is there some other need that needs to be met that you're not actually paying attention to it? So could that happen first beforehand?
Again, checking in about your mood. Are you happy, sad, stressed, anxious? Checking in to see, am I in a good head space to go check my social media or is that just going to exacerbate where I'm already at right now. The other thing that I would recommend is setting some boundaries about how often you check the news. So maybe you tell yourself, I'm only going to check it once in the day in the evening or something. Or first thing in the morning, I'll check, but that'd be it. Setting a firm limit for yourself about how often you're going to check things can be helpful. Another option is setting time limits for how long you'll allow yourself. There are apps out there that you can download.
Some of them are free, some of them have in-app purchases. But they can track how long you're on an application and give you a warning or they can disrupt your time to say, "Hey, is there anything else you can be doing right now or do you want to continue to do this?" So it can be a hard interruption to what you're doing. If you're finding yourself just endlessly scrolling, something like that might be a good thing to consider. And an easy one is, a lot of people don't realize this, but you can change the settings in your phone so that your screen is in black and white. And it makes it a lot less interesting to look at and not as entertaining. So sometimes that can be a really easy one. And it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, but it certainly makes it less thrilling to look at, I guess.
Chuck Gaidica:
That's an interesting one because I had... I spent a lifetime in television news, and I remember having this discussion. It wasn't an argument, but it was a discussion about why we would put a helicopter in the air, in the day, 300 bucks an hour, to fly over a vacant house on fire with nobody in it, no traffic disruptions, not catching fire to a next door neighbor's house because there weren't any. This wasn't even in my wheelhouse, but I said, "Why are we doing that?" Well, because they're 20-foot flames. Well, yeah, but it's not affecting anybody. Well, yeah, but it's visual. And so when you say this, that's a really interesting way to turn off some of the... It's not a fire where we all go, oh my gosh, look at that, but it leads to that other question. Is this doom scrolling, is this news that we're seeking out really affecting us, or is it just because there are purse snatchings in California? They're not happening in Southeast Michigan, so why do you get all upset about it? You know what I mean? Is it news that's affecting us?
Jessica Chester:
Right.
Chuck Gaidica:
And I think that's a good question to ask too.
Jessica Chester:
I think that is a good question to ask. And in the meantime, trying to take some of the... just our natural human instinct, which is to look at something bright and shiny and make it less interesting to look at, is a good way to make it easier to say no, I'm good, and pass and do something else.
Chuck Gaidica:
Boy, that's a brilliant one. Make the fancy, bright, shiny news less attractive. Yeah, just make it boring.
Jessica Chester:
Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Just make it boring, right?
Jessica Chester:
Exactly.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Whether it's to the college kids you're working with or to any of us, how do you suggest that we stay balanced and informed at the same time and protect our mental health? Because it doesn't seem to me that a lot of people I meet, maybe I just don't ask enough of them, are really looking for balanced news. You're left of center or right of center politically, so that's where you navigate a lot of times. Do you suggest we just look for multiple sources? But how do we do this and still protect our mental health?
Jessica Chester:
That's a tricky one because I think people often already know where they're at politically and things, and so there's a tendency to just look at content that reaffirms our current beliefs or opinions on things. I mean, I get that. I think we're all guilty of that. I think that one thing you could do is make sure that you're seeking out reputable sources. In a conversation that I was having with somebody else about a similar topic, it was recommended to also include international news because they sometimes are a little bit more removed from what's happening in the US. And sometimes it can give you a little bit of a fair summary of a topic or what have you, but then also just give you a little bit more perspective about other things that are happening outside of your state or what have you.
The other thing is making sure you're choosing reliable sources. I think there's a lot of clickbait that's out there and it's got a title. There's a lot of stuff that's not real on the internet, and so making sure that you're reading information from reliable sources would be good. You touched on this earlier, so this can be difficult, but trying to prioritize positive news or looking for what are you trying to find out and looking specifically for that as opposed to consuming everything that's out there. And I think the biggest thing is just take a day off. Sunday, or whatever day you want, just be like, "I'm not going to go on the internet."
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, a digital fast.
Jessica Chester:
Yeah, exactly. Do not disturb. Tell a people so that they know and they're not concerned that you're missing or something. But just say, "Hey, I'm not going to check my phone on Saturdays. I'm just going to unplug." And it's really important. And it might seem silly, but we have to set an intention or else it's not going to happen. So make a goal and say, "I'm going to do this." Even if it's not all day for half the day, just give yourself a break.
Chuck Gaidica:
I like this phrase of a digital fast because it sounds to me like you're fasting from food. You can make it part of your calendar, right?
Jessica Chester:
Yes, absolutely. In fact, our counseling department here at Wayne State for several years now, we've been running a support group for students that want to take a break from digital, social media, and things. And so we actually have a group that we run here to give some people support in doing that.
Chuck Gaidica:
So what takeaways would you leave with our audience after all we've talked about, which is so much great stuff?
Jessica Chester:
I think my biggest takeaway would just be, social media use or news consumption isn't bad inherently, but it's important that you monitor your use. And if you're noticing that it's having an impact on you or the people around you, then you got to make some changes and put some limits on it. Again, it's not inherently bad, but it's a lot, and so we just have to check in with ourselves. And if you're trying to reduce your usage and you're having a hard time, or you're noticing that it's having a really big impact on your mood or your mental health in general, you can always speak to your physician or speak to a mental health professional. If you've tried some of these strategies on your own and are encountering some challenges in doing so, there might be additional help out there that you can get.
Chuck Gaidica:
It's all great stuff. Jessica, thanks so much for being with us today.
Jessica Chester:
Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
Chuck Gaidica:
Oh, sure thing. Jessica Chester from Wayne State University helping us get a handle on this idea of doom scrolling. We're glad you were listening today to A Healthier Michigan Podcast. It's brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. If you like the show, you want to know more, even to suggest this episode. Lots of ways to do that. You can jump online at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast or you can leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can also follow us. Don't be doom scrolling, but you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or X. You can get new episodes, all of our old episodes. Be sure to subscribe to us as well on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app. I'm Chuck Gaidica. Stay well.
Have you ever found yourself endlessly scrolling through social media? There's a term for that and it can have significant impact on your mental health. This is episode 170 of A Healthier Michigan Podcast, the podcast dedicated to navigating how we can improve our health and well-being through small, healthy habits that we can start implementing right now. I'm your host, Chuck Gaidica. On this episode, we're diving into the effects of something called doom scrolling and how it can affect our mental health, and how we can break away from this habit. With me today is licensed clinical social worker and university counselor of the Counseling and Psychological Services Department for Wayne State, Jessica Chester. Jessica, good to have you with us.
Jessica Chester:
Thank you so much. Good morning.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, good to have you. It's easy, I think, in today's world... Really any time, it's just maybe we didn't have these things. But it's easy now to feel overwhelmed by this constant flood of social media content that we get. And it seems from the moment we wake up, our devices are connected to this endless stream of updates and dings and bulletins, and sometimes leaves us feeling anxious and never able to disconnect from it. doom scrolling has become a widespread habit, and it's one that can take a toll on one's mental health is what we've been told in various ways. So I guess a good question is: What can we do to break this habit so we can be more mindful of how much time we're spending on this device or any device?
Jessica Chester:
Sure. So I think some of the things that we can do to be more mindful is really just that, being more mindful. So checking in with yourself. What's your mood like when you're online? Are you noticing that you're feeling more stressed as a result of being on social media, for example? Some other things that I think are important to be checking in on is, is this impacting your sleep? Are you not going to sleep because you're sitting online or is it the first thing that you're doing when you're waking up? I think really just paying attention to how social media use is impacting your daily habits is a really good place to start.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. We're using the examples of social media and doom scrolling obviously, but this could also be, even though it seems really old school, television news, it can be cable news, it can be radio, it can be really any source, but this is the one that you're talking about. And I find it interesting that you mention this idea of checking your mood because... Well, it's a question I'll have for you. Could your mood also be influencing the fact before you get into doom scrolling that that's where you're now heading for some kind of comfort? You know what I mean? It's not just that the doom scrolling is changing your mood, did your mood change, and then you're gravitating toward picking it up and going at it?
Jessica Chester:
Absolutely. And I think this is the biggest thing that we're seeing is not so much... Or I shouldn't say that we know it. This is such a new concept that we don't have a ton of research to be able to say exactly how it affects our brains necessarily, but what we do know is that people that are more prone to being depressed or anxious tend to be more profoundly impacted by doom scrolling. So if you are already in a place of having some depressive symptoms or symptoms of anxiety, we see that oftentimes people are turning to their device almost to validate that headspace that they're already in. So they're seeking out maybe more negative types of content or content that validates their worldview or their view of themselves.
And so then on certain apps, there's an algorithm. It starts to track the patterns of content that you're looking at and continues to give you more and more of that. So you're not seeing the other side of it, the more happy, the positive things, you're just continuing to get more and more of the same, and that can have a really big impact on your mood certainly.
Chuck Gaidica:
And that really can mess with us. Because I would assume even though we think we're in control while we're looking at stuff, those algorithms can start to affect our habits. You would think, well, I can break this habit, I'll just look for some happy news, but yet the algorithms are starting to send more stuff and you're falling into that trap. It is becoming a habit, huh?
Jessica Chester:
Absolutely. We know that social media in particular, these short-form type videos that we see in different reels or apps that have that type of feature that it lights up our brain very similar to a slot machine. And so we're constantly flipping to the next thing. Even if it's not something that's exciting, even if it's something that elicits a negative connotation, it is that dopamine-seeking behavior that keeps us really stuck and having a hard time breaking away.
Chuck Gaidica:
Is the shortness of those things part of the idea because we're... I've always been a visual learner, so I appreciate video, but I think I read, I don't know how many years ago, that the human attention span had dropped to eight seconds. Nine seconds is the attention span of a goldfish. And I thought, "Man, we really only have about eight seconds. That's all you got me for." And I think that's part of the reason we've seen these things go from 20 minutes to 10 minutes to 2 minutes, and now it's even less, right?
Jessica Chester:
Yes, absolutely. Anecdotally, and in terms of research, the one thing that we know for sure is that this short format type content that's out there is having a really big impact on our ability to focus. And I work with college students all day, so they're often speaking about how difficult it is to pay attention to a lecture or to even watch a normal movie or read a book. It's really difficult because they are so used to being able to obtain information in three minutes or less. And like you said, research is showing that our attention span is dropping every day. So it's hard to compete with that.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, over time... I guess it's changed because of streaming and just young people. You would know better than anybody else, anybody even watching traditional news on average. But back in the day, television news stations tried to change to an all-positive kind of a news approach, and they failed miserably. I mean, in under a year they just failed and they went back to the old way of doing things, which is the big stories at the top are negative and that's what gets you to tune in. Breaking news and all the stuff that screams at you, that's now become commonplace on social media. So that leads to this idea of doom scrolling where you just get stuck. How do you know you've got a habit that's becoming bad? How do you know that? What are the warning signs that you're falling into this cycle?
Jessica Chester:
Absolutely. And I think we spoke to some of these things earlier. I think that if you're noticing hours and hours are being spent just looking at information. Are people pointing it out to you? Are they saying that they're concerned? If you're a parent, has your child said something to you about how you're on your phone frequently or are you noticing that your ability to complete tasks or do the things that you need to be doing is being impacted by the fact that you can't break away from your phone? I think we can all empathize with that and are guilty of it. Occasionally, you have to go to the grocery store and you just get stuck looking at things and then hours go by. So just paying attention to are the things that you're supposed to be doing being impacted, but also how do you feel. Are you feeling badly after you're online for hours looking at negative news or negative content on the internet? I think that's the biggest indicator because it's different for everyone, but really paying attention to how do you feel after using it.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. And maybe also how you feel after you've unplugged from it for a while. Whether it's your own motivation to do that or somebody waved a flag going, "Hey, you're doing this a lot." Maybe you do feel better when you've detached, right?
Jessica Chester:
Absolutely.
Chuck Gaidica:
I often think of that idea of... You can unplug a vacuum and it'll work again tomorrow when you plug it back in. I mean, you can unplug from this thing. It's hard, but you can unplug from it and it'll work again tomorrow, right?
Jessica Chester:
Exactly. Oftentimes, we forget that this is such a new technology. We didn't have access to this. When I was a kid, that was not a thing. You had to actively go onto a computer and seek out information. We didn't have it in our pocket. We didn't have something to distract us constantly. You're right, it does work tomorrow. So taking a detox or a break or whatever you want to call it, is super important. And that's one of the things that we can do to try to break that cycle.
Chuck Gaidica:
And the name itself doom scrolling implies something that I think is important here, that this is not just you're hooked on National Geographic stuff. I mean, everybody has a hobby or an interest. This is doom, this is negative news that's attracting us. Is part of that because of the way we're wired as human beings that we say we don't want to hear it? La, la, la, I don't want to hear bad news, but yet we still want to peek in behind the curtain even if it's just for a couple seconds.
Jessica Chester:
I certainly think that that's an aspect of it, just being attracted to drama or sensationalist type things. We want to know. We seek it out. We seek out that information. And I think the other part of it is just the state of the world right now too. And this really became a big thing around COVID. It probably existed before that, but I think it all came into our collective consciousness around COVID. And so with that and just everything that's going on in the world, I think that... It changes people's outlook on things, and so they often seek out information to validate why they're feeling stressed or concerned or what have you. So a lot of that involves looking at other things that are unpleasant or doom and gloom.
Chuck Gaidica:
It's kind of interesting to me that also you don't see as many talk shows like this. The old days where there used to be fistfights and talk shows, I guess even some of the doctors will leave their names out that do a show. And I read some research a few years back that said a lot of people watch those shows because they literally want to find somebody in worse shape than they are in their own life. And I thought, "Man, psychologically that's a strange thing when you're..." You go searching for more doom, so your life seems more better.
Jessica Chester:
Yeah, absolutely. I think you hit it on the head. We just want to make sure we're okay. And so if other people are having it worse than us, then that means things aren't so bad with us. And I think with social media too, what we often see, especially with younger people, is there's so much comparing themselves to the lives of others. And even though that might not be the most negative content, but that can have a really big impact on your self-esteem and your self-worth. Because if you're seeing all of these people that have seemingly amazing lives and then you're feeling bad about yourself, that has a really big impact too.
Chuck Gaidica:
That's really interesting. And so there have to be practical strategies to decouple, to break this habit that we're feeling. And it's not just important news. And I'll give you a really interesting example. I've got two dogs. One's a Labradoodle. I think someday she's going to teach herself how to drive. That's how smart she is. But what's funny is I have haptics, I have sounds on my phone that when my camera doorbell see somebody come and deliver a package, it just goes bing. I don't even know which sound it is, it's just a bing. She now thinks that any sound that comes out of this phone means someone has come to the front door, which it doesn't, and she runs to the front door.
She's now been trained that a sound that comes off of my phone means, oh, we better go look. I knew that your episode was coming up for us to talk about. It's interesting that now, like Pavlov's dog, I have one, is trained to hear a sound, which tells me I'm trained to... Ding, oh, I better see. Is that a big news story? Is something happened during the politics season? What's going on? But we're all trained with that instinct now to snap our heads and look for something, aren't we?
Jessica Chester:
Yeah, absolutely. You're talking about conditioning.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah.
Jessica Chester:
So yeah, we're all conditioned now to the notifications that we receive on our phones, to this compulsion to check our social medias or different things. We've trained ourselves to be conditioned now to that.
Chuck Gaidica:
How do we untrain ourselves, Jessica?
Jessica Chester:
That's a good question. Again, for everybody, it's different, but I think there are some common things that are useful. A lot of people will talk about how they've tried to stop and they just can't help themselves. They just keep going back to it. So I think there's some easy, concrete, practical things that you can try if you haven't tried these already. The first thing, like we talked about earlier, just being mindful about your use. I think being mindful about where you are before you go online. So checking in with yourself, are you hungry? Are you thirsty? Are you bored? Are you tired? Why are you going to check whatever site? Is there some other need that needs to be met that you're not actually paying attention to it? So could that happen first beforehand?
Again, checking in about your mood. Are you happy, sad, stressed, anxious? Checking in to see, am I in a good head space to go check my social media or is that just going to exacerbate where I'm already at right now. The other thing that I would recommend is setting some boundaries about how often you check the news. So maybe you tell yourself, I'm only going to check it once in the day in the evening or something. Or first thing in the morning, I'll check, but that'd be it. Setting a firm limit for yourself about how often you're going to check things can be helpful. Another option is setting time limits for how long you'll allow yourself. There are apps out there that you can download.
Some of them are free, some of them have in-app purchases. But they can track how long you're on an application and give you a warning or they can disrupt your time to say, "Hey, is there anything else you can be doing right now or do you want to continue to do this?" So it can be a hard interruption to what you're doing. If you're finding yourself just endlessly scrolling, something like that might be a good thing to consider. And an easy one is, a lot of people don't realize this, but you can change the settings in your phone so that your screen is in black and white. And it makes it a lot less interesting to look at and not as entertaining. So sometimes that can be a really easy one. And it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, but it certainly makes it less thrilling to look at, I guess.
Chuck Gaidica:
That's an interesting one because I had... I spent a lifetime in television news, and I remember having this discussion. It wasn't an argument, but it was a discussion about why we would put a helicopter in the air, in the day, 300 bucks an hour, to fly over a vacant house on fire with nobody in it, no traffic disruptions, not catching fire to a next door neighbor's house because there weren't any. This wasn't even in my wheelhouse, but I said, "Why are we doing that?" Well, because they're 20-foot flames. Well, yeah, but it's not affecting anybody. Well, yeah, but it's visual. And so when you say this, that's a really interesting way to turn off some of the... It's not a fire where we all go, oh my gosh, look at that, but it leads to that other question. Is this doom scrolling, is this news that we're seeking out really affecting us, or is it just because there are purse snatchings in California? They're not happening in Southeast Michigan, so why do you get all upset about it? You know what I mean? Is it news that's affecting us?
Jessica Chester:
Right.
Chuck Gaidica:
And I think that's a good question to ask too.
Jessica Chester:
I think that is a good question to ask. And in the meantime, trying to take some of the... just our natural human instinct, which is to look at something bright and shiny and make it less interesting to look at, is a good way to make it easier to say no, I'm good, and pass and do something else.
Chuck Gaidica:
Boy, that's a brilliant one. Make the fancy, bright, shiny news less attractive. Yeah, just make it boring.
Jessica Chester:
Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Just make it boring, right?
Jessica Chester:
Exactly.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Whether it's to the college kids you're working with or to any of us, how do you suggest that we stay balanced and informed at the same time and protect our mental health? Because it doesn't seem to me that a lot of people I meet, maybe I just don't ask enough of them, are really looking for balanced news. You're left of center or right of center politically, so that's where you navigate a lot of times. Do you suggest we just look for multiple sources? But how do we do this and still protect our mental health?
Jessica Chester:
That's a tricky one because I think people often already know where they're at politically and things, and so there's a tendency to just look at content that reaffirms our current beliefs or opinions on things. I mean, I get that. I think we're all guilty of that. I think that one thing you could do is make sure that you're seeking out reputable sources. In a conversation that I was having with somebody else about a similar topic, it was recommended to also include international news because they sometimes are a little bit more removed from what's happening in the US. And sometimes it can give you a little bit of a fair summary of a topic or what have you, but then also just give you a little bit more perspective about other things that are happening outside of your state or what have you.
The other thing is making sure you're choosing reliable sources. I think there's a lot of clickbait that's out there and it's got a title. There's a lot of stuff that's not real on the internet, and so making sure that you're reading information from reliable sources would be good. You touched on this earlier, so this can be difficult, but trying to prioritize positive news or looking for what are you trying to find out and looking specifically for that as opposed to consuming everything that's out there. And I think the biggest thing is just take a day off. Sunday, or whatever day you want, just be like, "I'm not going to go on the internet."
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, a digital fast.
Jessica Chester:
Yeah, exactly. Do not disturb. Tell a people so that they know and they're not concerned that you're missing or something. But just say, "Hey, I'm not going to check my phone on Saturdays. I'm just going to unplug." And it's really important. And it might seem silly, but we have to set an intention or else it's not going to happen. So make a goal and say, "I'm going to do this." Even if it's not all day for half the day, just give yourself a break.
Chuck Gaidica:
I like this phrase of a digital fast because it sounds to me like you're fasting from food. You can make it part of your calendar, right?
Jessica Chester:
Yes, absolutely. In fact, our counseling department here at Wayne State for several years now, we've been running a support group for students that want to take a break from digital, social media, and things. And so we actually have a group that we run here to give some people support in doing that.
Chuck Gaidica:
So what takeaways would you leave with our audience after all we've talked about, which is so much great stuff?
Jessica Chester:
I think my biggest takeaway would just be, social media use or news consumption isn't bad inherently, but it's important that you monitor your use. And if you're noticing that it's having an impact on you or the people around you, then you got to make some changes and put some limits on it. Again, it's not inherently bad, but it's a lot, and so we just have to check in with ourselves. And if you're trying to reduce your usage and you're having a hard time, or you're noticing that it's having a really big impact on your mood or your mental health in general, you can always speak to your physician or speak to a mental health professional. If you've tried some of these strategies on your own and are encountering some challenges in doing so, there might be additional help out there that you can get.
Chuck Gaidica:
It's all great stuff. Jessica, thanks so much for being with us today.
Jessica Chester:
Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
Chuck Gaidica:
Oh, sure thing. Jessica Chester from Wayne State University helping us get a handle on this idea of doom scrolling. We're glad you were listening today to A Healthier Michigan Podcast. It's brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. If you like the show, you want to know more, even to suggest this episode. Lots of ways to do that. You can jump online at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast or you can leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can also follow us. Don't be doom scrolling, but you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or X. You can get new episodes, all of our old episodes. Be sure to subscribe to us as well on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app. I'm Chuck Gaidica. Stay well.
