Podcast
Does Nutrient Timing Matter?
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About the Show
From aging to genetics, we’re exploring the balance between nutrition and metabolism in this four-part series.
On this episode, Chuck Gaidica is joined by Registered Dietitian for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, Shanthi Appelö. Together, they explore the science behind nutrient timing.
In this episode of A Healthier Michigan Podcast, we explore:
- What is nutrient timing?
- How intermittent fasting can have benefits like reducing calorie intake and stabilizing insulin levels, but prolonged fasting may slow metabolism.
- How timing certain nutrients, like having protein at breakfast or lighter meals in the evening, can help manage energy levels and digestion throughout the day.
- How developing a regular eating pattern and being mindful of hunger cues can support healthy weight maintenance over time.
Transcript
Here is the full transcript of this episode. You can listen to the audio version on streaming platforms or watch on YouTube.
Chuck Gaidica:
This is A Healthier Michigan podcast, and in this series we're exploring the balance between nutrition and metabolism. And in our final episode of this four-part series, we're exploring the science behind nutrient timing. What is that and when should we eat? Why does it even matter? I'm your host, Chuck Gaidica. And with me is registered dietitian for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, Shanthi Appelö.
So here we are again, this is joyful because we're learning a lot of stuff from little nuggets up to some really deep stuff. But this idea of metabolism, it seems like it's rocket science and you're bringing this home so we can understand it. I guess most of the time when it comes to diet exercise, it seems that it's not just what we eat, but when we eat that can influence our body's ability to process and use nutrients efficiently. So talk to us a little bit about how this idea of timing meals can affect our metabolism, our energy level, which you've talked about in the previous episode, and even our long-term health outcomes.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. So nutrient timing is this kind of strategic consumption of food and nutrients, our carbs, proteins, fats, and even vitamins and minerals in relation to when we have physical activity, when we sleep and do other things during the day. And the idea is so that we can optimize our body's ability to metabolize the nutrients, to enhance our performance, to feel better, to recover, and to just support our metabolism overall.
When it comes to certain foods and nutrients, for examples, they're fat soluble vitamins. So we want to make sure that when we're consuming those, we're consuming it with some fat to make sure that we're getting an enhanced absorption. So it's a little more than just our energy levels throughout the day.
Chuck Gaidica:
And when you say you should have fat with some of these even supplements you may be taking, you're not talking necessarily about a tablespoon of olive oil. You're saying because fish has fat, other foods have fat, that's why this idea of balance in your diet eating healthfully is a good idea even for nutrients.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, absolutely.
Chuck Gaidica:
So we hear a lot about fasting, and this is as old as the ages, right? I mean for religious reasons, people fast. We hear about intermittent fasting a lot and different ways to do it. Is intermittent fasting an effective way to improve our metabolism and overall health? And the reason I ask is because in just the past, what maybe it was episode two, you talked about the idea of five, maybe even smaller meals a day, trying to strategically time things out. Well, fasting, I can get that in an eight-hour window, but if I skip a meal or I'm fasting past breakfast time and I don't pick it up until lunch, that doesn't seem to all compute for me. So help me out.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Okay. So just what intermittent fasting is, is this kind of cycles of eating and fasting. So people will do different schedules. The 16/8 is really common, right? So you go 16 hours without eating and then for eight hours you have that window where you can eat.
Now, there are some benefits that we've seen in research. So for example, it does give you a window when you can eat. So naturally for some people it can cut out calories. It just gives them a little bit more structure like, "Nope, we're done at this point."
But then there's also the negative side of things, right? So when it comes to metabolism, that prolonged fasting can kind of make your body adapt to that. And so we may have a slower metabolic rate as a result if we fast for too long. And then I think it all comes down to that it's not one-size-fits all. Personally, I could never do intermittent fasting because I know that life throws curveballs and my schedule's not going to be the same each day and I don't like something so restrictive. But for some people it may add some kind of structure where they really like it.
There's also some evidence that intermittent fasting can be good for insulin and things like that, keeping those levels a little bit more stable. But I think in the grand scheme of things, it's better for your metabolism to eat more regularly.
Chuck Gaidica:
The way I've tried to compute this in my brain was that it seemed like this 8/16-ish kind of fasting idea just kind of help me think about not snacking late, right?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
So if I'm kind of on a 9:00 to 5:00, and I know none of us really truly are exactly on that schedule, but if you're thinking of breakfast, lunch, dinner, a couple of healthy snacks, well, if you get past 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening and that's eight or nine hours-ish and you're saying fast, all in my mind I'm thinking as, "Well, I shouldn't be eating a big bunch of cookies at 11 o'clock at night. It doesn't fit the plan." And so that's the way I've thought of that idea of fasting. Not so much that it's an imposition, but it just helps me get through maybe a more healthful pattern. So yeah, it is a good way to think about it.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. And maybe also it could be something that you're not so strict about, right? Maybe you do in general follow the 16/8, but you have a birthday party or a New Year's Eve situation, you give yourself that opportunity to have some food past that window.
Chuck Gaidica:
So where do you stand on the idea of specific times a day that are better for eating certain foods to enhance digestion or even, "Hey, wake up and within the first hour you should eat 20 grams of protein"? You see the headlines flash. So where do you stand on that idea of specific times a day for all kinds of foods?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. So having foods throughout the day can influence digestion and our energy levels throughout the day. People who tend to have more regular eating patterns tend to have better weight maintenance because there's a routine there. And also they tend to have more balanced meals. So for example, when you have breakfast, it's a good idea to have those complex carbohydrates because it gives that steady release of energy. In the last episode we just mentioned that whenever we break down things like simple carbohydrates like sugar, it breaks down so quickly that we don't get energy after that. It just, you get a boost of it and then you don't get so much. So that's why that's important.
And then also we've seen that having protein at breakfast, so there's some truth to shoot for that 20 grams at breakfast because it does help manage appetite throughout the day. For lunch, something well-balanced is good because we don't want to get that energy slump in the afternoon, in the evening. But for the evening, it can be really helpful to have a lighter kind of more nutrient dense meal. And so some kind of lean protein, not too high in fat because it can prevent bloating and it can actually help you get better sleep. And we know that sleep plays into so many different parts of our health, right? We understand that if we don't get enough sleep, if we're stressed, things like that, it can increase cortisol levels, which makes it more difficult to eat healthy. We're craving those foods that aren't as good for us and don't make us feel so good. So I think it's a good idea to have a lighter meal at night, focus on the bigger ones during the day.
Chuck Gaidica:
So you used the word structure. I talked about intermittent fasting, maybe giving me some kind of predictability. You're weaving that into this where for many people they're looking for not maybe a hack, or maybe they are, but they're looking for some way to make their diet more predictable. And some of these common sense ways are actually doing that as a byproduct, which I think is an awesome way to think of it. It's helping us along, making it predictable, which for many of us is a hard thing to think about and actually deploy.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Something predictable in an unpredictable world
Chuck Gaidica:
Right. Right.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, but that's helpful for me anyway. So meal timing, let's talk about that. The relationship between meal timing, you already hit a little bit on it. Metabolism, weight loss, and even maintenance over time.
Shanthi Appelö:
So this idea too of having these kind of frequent meals and the timing of it all, having something in the morning, lunch, evening, and a couple in between, it just prevents blood sugar and insulin spikes. So that does help us feel better.
Another thing is that it could actually improve the way that we use our calories and also our fat storage and utilization. And so that's another way to look at it is for eating this way, we're really... That's a good way to be strategic about it. But when we look at people who tend to have healthy weights and are able to maintain those over time, they do really tune into those hunger cues and they tend to have more of a schedule of eating rather than just taking a bite here and there.
Chuck Gaidica:
Are you a big fan of food trackers and that kind of stuff on an app where you can literally just put in for the day and then you can start to look at some of what you're doing to see how good it is or not, I guess?
Shanthi Appelö:
I think food trackers can be really good when you look at your overall diet quality. But there's a lot of human error that goes into it, because we're like, "Oh, I just had a bite of that, I won't enter that." Or it's easy to forget. So I think if you're using them correctly, they can be a really good tool. And also it can be a good tool to see, like, "Hey, what are the nutrients I'm maybe lacking in? Am I getting enough protein?" Because sometimes it can be really difficult to know what that looks like.
But in terms of weight loss, if you're using it as a tool to reduce your caloric intake, it can be good for some people, but for other people it can call more attention and it can kind of form an unhealthy relationship with food. So I think it comes down to your own psychology and what works for you.
Chuck Gaidica:
So I've got a question for you, because you're in such a unique position. So you're a registered dietician, right? You're also, you're into cooking, you do a lot of things for yourself. You're doing videos, you're being interviewed by the media times to give information even on this podcast. When you think about everything you've said in four episodes, what strikes me is that the word balance is important. It's kind of like what's old is new again, just common sense stuff. Why is it that we as humans are always looking for the new bright, shiny object at the checkout line at the grocery store? We're looking at these tabloids that tell us that there's a new "do something different." Why don't we gravitate back to what is common sense? You've dealt with a lot of stuff in the four episodes here that it's just, if we followed some of this, life would be a lot better. Why don't we?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Patience is difficult. I think of it as taking care of a plant. A plant doesn't grow to be beautifully healthy and big in one day, right? We have to care for it. We have to nurture it. We have to do these things. It's not like a plant is going to feel great if we just give it water and then it's feeling sad and okay, we'll give it some more water, right? The consistent taking care of it is what matters. And then that same vein, that plant is not going to die overnight just because you didn't water it one day.
So we like quick solutions. We also want to believe that there is a quick fix to things or that there is something because we all want to feel good. And if there is this idea that taking one pill or eating one kind of food is going to be the solution to all our problems, we want to do that. We want to believe that. And I think that's why we gravitate towards these easy solutions sometimes and not the idea that eat balance more fruits and vegetables, more whole foods, less sugary stuff, right? It's not as exciting sounding either.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, it doesn't make for sexy headlines. I mean, to be honest, it just doesn't. What I'm encouraged by with all that you've shared with us in these past episodes too, is that we all have the ability in our own context, our own family structure, whether it's with a spouse or kids or grandkids, whatever it is. If we start to change and either people see results in and from us or we start to see them in ourselves and we start to have a little different rhythm to our step because we are losing weight or we're sleeping better, we really all have the ability to be influencers in our own little circles, which is amazing to think about.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, I think you're right. And I think also showing a positive attitude towards eating healthy is a good idea, especially when it comes to being around children. Something that we said when we would be in classrooms with kids, I used to teach kindergartners to fifth grade students about physical activity and nutrition like, "Don't yuck my yum. Let's not talk about these foods in a negative way that are healthy." And also, I remember there was a teacher who like, "Ew, that's healthy" or something. We need to be careful about the language that we're using to make sure that we're framing foods in a positive light that are healthy for us. And also framing the foods that aren't so great for us in a way that these are sometimes foods. These are foods that don't make us feel great, but it's okay to have them because really our relationship with food and how we look at it really influences the rest of our life.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, whether it's from this one episode in particular or any of the four in total, what are your takeaways for us that we could leave with the audience?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, I think look at balance in your life. Look at what works for you. What works for another person may not work for you. Be careful when you're looking at social media because influencers oftentimes have some kind of financial motivation to push what they're pushing and maybe don't have the qualifications, but do use it for things that help motivate you for things like recipes and meal planning. And just be careful when you're seeing things that have really dramatic claims or some urgency to them because they're often like if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Well, good stuff. And we're going to be bursting into spring here, so it'll be a good time for us to maybe-
Shanthi Appelö:
I'm so excited about that.
Chuck Gaidica:
... reconnoiter, right? We can get back on track and that'll be great.
Shanthi Appelö:
All the healthy produce that's coming up, I'm so looking forward to that.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, it's going to be a great season. And thanks for all your help with these four episodes and we look forward to seeing you again soon.
Shanthi Appelö:
Same to you.
Chuck Gaidica:
Thanks a lot. Shanthi Appelö is a registered dietitian for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. And we want to thank you for listening. This is A Healthier Michigan podcast and it's brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan.
If you like the show, you want to know more, you can check us out in many different ways. You can jump online at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast. You can leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or X, You can get all of our new old episodes, whatever you like on your smartphone or tablet. And don't forget, you can subscribe to us. Hit the button on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Check us out on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. Thanks for being here. Be well.
This is A Healthier Michigan podcast, and in this series we're exploring the balance between nutrition and metabolism. And in our final episode of this four-part series, we're exploring the science behind nutrient timing. What is that and when should we eat? Why does it even matter? I'm your host, Chuck Gaidica. And with me is registered dietitian for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, Shanthi Appelö.
So here we are again, this is joyful because we're learning a lot of stuff from little nuggets up to some really deep stuff. But this idea of metabolism, it seems like it's rocket science and you're bringing this home so we can understand it. I guess most of the time when it comes to diet exercise, it seems that it's not just what we eat, but when we eat that can influence our body's ability to process and use nutrients efficiently. So talk to us a little bit about how this idea of timing meals can affect our metabolism, our energy level, which you've talked about in the previous episode, and even our long-term health outcomes.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. So nutrient timing is this kind of strategic consumption of food and nutrients, our carbs, proteins, fats, and even vitamins and minerals in relation to when we have physical activity, when we sleep and do other things during the day. And the idea is so that we can optimize our body's ability to metabolize the nutrients, to enhance our performance, to feel better, to recover, and to just support our metabolism overall.
When it comes to certain foods and nutrients, for examples, they're fat soluble vitamins. So we want to make sure that when we're consuming those, we're consuming it with some fat to make sure that we're getting an enhanced absorption. So it's a little more than just our energy levels throughout the day.
Chuck Gaidica:
And when you say you should have fat with some of these even supplements you may be taking, you're not talking necessarily about a tablespoon of olive oil. You're saying because fish has fat, other foods have fat, that's why this idea of balance in your diet eating healthfully is a good idea even for nutrients.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, absolutely.
Chuck Gaidica:
So we hear a lot about fasting, and this is as old as the ages, right? I mean for religious reasons, people fast. We hear about intermittent fasting a lot and different ways to do it. Is intermittent fasting an effective way to improve our metabolism and overall health? And the reason I ask is because in just the past, what maybe it was episode two, you talked about the idea of five, maybe even smaller meals a day, trying to strategically time things out. Well, fasting, I can get that in an eight-hour window, but if I skip a meal or I'm fasting past breakfast time and I don't pick it up until lunch, that doesn't seem to all compute for me. So help me out.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Okay. So just what intermittent fasting is, is this kind of cycles of eating and fasting. So people will do different schedules. The 16/8 is really common, right? So you go 16 hours without eating and then for eight hours you have that window where you can eat.
Now, there are some benefits that we've seen in research. So for example, it does give you a window when you can eat. So naturally for some people it can cut out calories. It just gives them a little bit more structure like, "Nope, we're done at this point."
But then there's also the negative side of things, right? So when it comes to metabolism, that prolonged fasting can kind of make your body adapt to that. And so we may have a slower metabolic rate as a result if we fast for too long. And then I think it all comes down to that it's not one-size-fits all. Personally, I could never do intermittent fasting because I know that life throws curveballs and my schedule's not going to be the same each day and I don't like something so restrictive. But for some people it may add some kind of structure where they really like it.
There's also some evidence that intermittent fasting can be good for insulin and things like that, keeping those levels a little bit more stable. But I think in the grand scheme of things, it's better for your metabolism to eat more regularly.
Chuck Gaidica:
The way I've tried to compute this in my brain was that it seemed like this 8/16-ish kind of fasting idea just kind of help me think about not snacking late, right?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
So if I'm kind of on a 9:00 to 5:00, and I know none of us really truly are exactly on that schedule, but if you're thinking of breakfast, lunch, dinner, a couple of healthy snacks, well, if you get past 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening and that's eight or nine hours-ish and you're saying fast, all in my mind I'm thinking as, "Well, I shouldn't be eating a big bunch of cookies at 11 o'clock at night. It doesn't fit the plan." And so that's the way I've thought of that idea of fasting. Not so much that it's an imposition, but it just helps me get through maybe a more healthful pattern. So yeah, it is a good way to think about it.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. And maybe also it could be something that you're not so strict about, right? Maybe you do in general follow the 16/8, but you have a birthday party or a New Year's Eve situation, you give yourself that opportunity to have some food past that window.
Chuck Gaidica:
So where do you stand on the idea of specific times a day that are better for eating certain foods to enhance digestion or even, "Hey, wake up and within the first hour you should eat 20 grams of protein"? You see the headlines flash. So where do you stand on that idea of specific times a day for all kinds of foods?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. So having foods throughout the day can influence digestion and our energy levels throughout the day. People who tend to have more regular eating patterns tend to have better weight maintenance because there's a routine there. And also they tend to have more balanced meals. So for example, when you have breakfast, it's a good idea to have those complex carbohydrates because it gives that steady release of energy. In the last episode we just mentioned that whenever we break down things like simple carbohydrates like sugar, it breaks down so quickly that we don't get energy after that. It just, you get a boost of it and then you don't get so much. So that's why that's important.
And then also we've seen that having protein at breakfast, so there's some truth to shoot for that 20 grams at breakfast because it does help manage appetite throughout the day. For lunch, something well-balanced is good because we don't want to get that energy slump in the afternoon, in the evening. But for the evening, it can be really helpful to have a lighter kind of more nutrient dense meal. And so some kind of lean protein, not too high in fat because it can prevent bloating and it can actually help you get better sleep. And we know that sleep plays into so many different parts of our health, right? We understand that if we don't get enough sleep, if we're stressed, things like that, it can increase cortisol levels, which makes it more difficult to eat healthy. We're craving those foods that aren't as good for us and don't make us feel so good. So I think it's a good idea to have a lighter meal at night, focus on the bigger ones during the day.
Chuck Gaidica:
So you used the word structure. I talked about intermittent fasting, maybe giving me some kind of predictability. You're weaving that into this where for many people they're looking for not maybe a hack, or maybe they are, but they're looking for some way to make their diet more predictable. And some of these common sense ways are actually doing that as a byproduct, which I think is an awesome way to think of it. It's helping us along, making it predictable, which for many of us is a hard thing to think about and actually deploy.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Something predictable in an unpredictable world
Chuck Gaidica:
Right. Right.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, but that's helpful for me anyway. So meal timing, let's talk about that. The relationship between meal timing, you already hit a little bit on it. Metabolism, weight loss, and even maintenance over time.
Shanthi Appelö:
So this idea too of having these kind of frequent meals and the timing of it all, having something in the morning, lunch, evening, and a couple in between, it just prevents blood sugar and insulin spikes. So that does help us feel better.
Another thing is that it could actually improve the way that we use our calories and also our fat storage and utilization. And so that's another way to look at it is for eating this way, we're really... That's a good way to be strategic about it. But when we look at people who tend to have healthy weights and are able to maintain those over time, they do really tune into those hunger cues and they tend to have more of a schedule of eating rather than just taking a bite here and there.
Chuck Gaidica:
Are you a big fan of food trackers and that kind of stuff on an app where you can literally just put in for the day and then you can start to look at some of what you're doing to see how good it is or not, I guess?
Shanthi Appelö:
I think food trackers can be really good when you look at your overall diet quality. But there's a lot of human error that goes into it, because we're like, "Oh, I just had a bite of that, I won't enter that." Or it's easy to forget. So I think if you're using them correctly, they can be a really good tool. And also it can be a good tool to see, like, "Hey, what are the nutrients I'm maybe lacking in? Am I getting enough protein?" Because sometimes it can be really difficult to know what that looks like.
But in terms of weight loss, if you're using it as a tool to reduce your caloric intake, it can be good for some people, but for other people it can call more attention and it can kind of form an unhealthy relationship with food. So I think it comes down to your own psychology and what works for you.
Chuck Gaidica:
So I've got a question for you, because you're in such a unique position. So you're a registered dietician, right? You're also, you're into cooking, you do a lot of things for yourself. You're doing videos, you're being interviewed by the media times to give information even on this podcast. When you think about everything you've said in four episodes, what strikes me is that the word balance is important. It's kind of like what's old is new again, just common sense stuff. Why is it that we as humans are always looking for the new bright, shiny object at the checkout line at the grocery store? We're looking at these tabloids that tell us that there's a new "do something different." Why don't we gravitate back to what is common sense? You've dealt with a lot of stuff in the four episodes here that it's just, if we followed some of this, life would be a lot better. Why don't we?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah. Patience is difficult. I think of it as taking care of a plant. A plant doesn't grow to be beautifully healthy and big in one day, right? We have to care for it. We have to nurture it. We have to do these things. It's not like a plant is going to feel great if we just give it water and then it's feeling sad and okay, we'll give it some more water, right? The consistent taking care of it is what matters. And then that same vein, that plant is not going to die overnight just because you didn't water it one day.
So we like quick solutions. We also want to believe that there is a quick fix to things or that there is something because we all want to feel good. And if there is this idea that taking one pill or eating one kind of food is going to be the solution to all our problems, we want to do that. We want to believe that. And I think that's why we gravitate towards these easy solutions sometimes and not the idea that eat balance more fruits and vegetables, more whole foods, less sugary stuff, right? It's not as exciting sounding either.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, it doesn't make for sexy headlines. I mean, to be honest, it just doesn't. What I'm encouraged by with all that you've shared with us in these past episodes too, is that we all have the ability in our own context, our own family structure, whether it's with a spouse or kids or grandkids, whatever it is. If we start to change and either people see results in and from us or we start to see them in ourselves and we start to have a little different rhythm to our step because we are losing weight or we're sleeping better, we really all have the ability to be influencers in our own little circles, which is amazing to think about.
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, I think you're right. And I think also showing a positive attitude towards eating healthy is a good idea, especially when it comes to being around children. Something that we said when we would be in classrooms with kids, I used to teach kindergartners to fifth grade students about physical activity and nutrition like, "Don't yuck my yum. Let's not talk about these foods in a negative way that are healthy." And also, I remember there was a teacher who like, "Ew, that's healthy" or something. We need to be careful about the language that we're using to make sure that we're framing foods in a positive light that are healthy for us. And also framing the foods that aren't so great for us in a way that these are sometimes foods. These are foods that don't make us feel great, but it's okay to have them because really our relationship with food and how we look at it really influences the rest of our life.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, whether it's from this one episode in particular or any of the four in total, what are your takeaways for us that we could leave with the audience?
Shanthi Appelö:
Yeah, I think look at balance in your life. Look at what works for you. What works for another person may not work for you. Be careful when you're looking at social media because influencers oftentimes have some kind of financial motivation to push what they're pushing and maybe don't have the qualifications, but do use it for things that help motivate you for things like recipes and meal planning. And just be careful when you're seeing things that have really dramatic claims or some urgency to them because they're often like if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Well, good stuff. And we're going to be bursting into spring here, so it'll be a good time for us to maybe-
Shanthi Appelö:
I'm so excited about that.
Chuck Gaidica:
... reconnoiter, right? We can get back on track and that'll be great.
Shanthi Appelö:
All the healthy produce that's coming up, I'm so looking forward to that.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, it's going to be a great season. And thanks for all your help with these four episodes and we look forward to seeing you again soon.
Shanthi Appelö:
Same to you.
Chuck Gaidica:
Thanks a lot. Shanthi Appelö is a registered dietitian for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. And we want to thank you for listening. This is A Healthier Michigan podcast and it's brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan.
If you like the show, you want to know more, you can check us out in many different ways. You can jump online at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast. You can leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or X, You can get all of our new old episodes, whatever you like on your smartphone or tablet. And don't forget, you can subscribe to us. Hit the button on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Check us out on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. Thanks for being here. Be well.
