The Power of Working Together in Health Care Now and Into the Future
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About the Show
For the next few episodes, we’ll be bringing you conversations from the Mackinac Policy Conference. This year, the conference is focusing on “the Power of &”, which will invite dialogue among speakers and attendees on why Michigan needs an “and” approach instead of “either or” policy solutions. With focus on the most pressing issues and opportunities in Michigan, the concept of “the Power of &” bridges the gap between conflicting sides, offering the essential impetus for leaders to approach problem-solving with nuanced thinking, fostering unity and progress. We thought it’d be a great opportunity to talk to attendees about how “the Power of &” will benefit the state of Michigan within their sectors. We hope you enjoy these bonus episodes.
On part 1 of this series, we’ll be focusing on the power of working together in health care now and into the future.
Guests:
- Blue Cross Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan’s Executive Vice President Strategy, Innovation and Public Affairs, Lynda Rossi
- Henry Ford Health President and CEO, Bob Riney
- Michigan Health and Hospital Association Senior Vice President and Chief Strategy Officer, Ruthanne Sudderth
- Michigan Health Endowment Fund CEO, Neel Hajra
- Arab Community Center for Economic & Social Services (ACCESS) Chief Operating Officer, Lina Harajli
Transcript
Chuck Gaidica:
Hi, everyone. Chuck Gaidica here for A Healthier Michigan Podcast. For the next few episodes, we’ll be bringing you conversations from the Mackinac Policy Conference. This year, the conference is focusing on the power of and, which will invite dialogue among speakers and attendees on why Michigan needs an and approach instead of either/or policy solutions.
With focus on the most pressing issues and opportunities in Michigan, the concept of the power of and bridges the gap between conflicting sides, offering the essential impetus for leaders to approach problem solving with nuanced thinking, fostering unity and progress. We thought it would be a great opportunity to talk to attendees about how the power of and will benefit the state of Michigan within their sectors. We hope you enjoy these bonus episodes.
Hi, everyone. Chuck Gaidica here for A Healthier Michigan Podcast. For the next few episodes, we’ll be bringing you conversations from the Mackinac Policy Conference. This year, the conference is focusing on the power of and, which will invite dialogue among speakers and attendees on why Michigan needs an and approach instead of either/or policy solutions.
With focus on the most pressing issues and opportunities in Michigan, the concept of the power of and bridges the gap between conflicting sides, offering the essential impetus for leaders to approach problem solving with nuanced thinking, fostering unity and progress. We thought it would be a great opportunity to talk to attendees about how the power of and will benefit the state of Michigan within their sectors. We hope you enjoy these bonus episodes.
On this episode, we’ll be focusing on the power of working together in healthcare, now and into the future. We’ll be talking with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan’s Executive Vice President, Strategy, Innovation and Public Affairs, Lynda Rossi, Henry Ford Health President and CEO, Bob Riney, Michigan Health & Hospital Association’s Senior Vice President and Chief Strategy Officer, Ruthanne Sudderth, Michigan Health Endowment Fund CEO, Neel Hajra, and Arab Community Center for Economic and Social Services, ACCESS, Chief Operating Officer, Lina Harajli.
First up is Executive Vice President, Strategy, Innovation and Public Affairs at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, Lynda Rossi.
First up is Executive Vice President, Strategy, Innovation and Public Affairs at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, Lynda Rossi.
How are you?
Lynda Rossi:
I’m good. How about you?
I’m good. How about you?
Chuck Gaidica:
You like the natural air conditioning? Isn’t it nice?
You like the natural air conditioning? Isn’t it nice?
Lynda Rossi:
It’s lovely.
It’s lovely.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, it really is a break. And then we go back to Florida weather.
Yeah, it really is a break. And then we go back to Florida weather.
Lynda Rossi:
It’s 90 degrees back home today.
It’s 90 degrees back home today.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, it’s actually warmer. I’ve got a buddy down there said, “You guys are hotter than we are in South Florida.” Pretty wild.
Yeah, it’s actually warmer. I’ve got a buddy down there said, “You guys are hotter than we are in South Florida.” Pretty wild.
Lynda Rossi:
Crazy.
Crazy.
Chuck Gaidica:
So I saw Blue Cross making news, it always seems to be making some good news. And this is big good news, right? That we’ve got a big announcement that an affiliate in Vermont, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Vermont, has now joined an affiliation with the Blues of Michigan. Talk about that.
So I saw Blue Cross making news, it always seems to be making some good news. And this is big good news, right? That we’ve got a big announcement that an affiliate in Vermont, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Vermont, has now joined an affiliation with the Blues of Michigan. Talk about that.
Lynda Rossi:
It’s really quite exciting for our company. So earlier this month, we were able to announce our affiliation agreement with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Vermont. This allows Vermont to kind of become part of our family. They’ll be able to stay local, they’ll keep their company local, they’ll keep their headquarters local, but they’ll have access to all of our capabilities. They’ll have access to our scale. We’ll be able to help them be more competitive. And it allows us to grow, and so it’s a win-win for everybody.
It’s really quite exciting for our company. So earlier this month, we were able to announce our affiliation agreement with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Vermont. This allows Vermont to kind of become part of our family. They’ll be able to stay local, they’ll keep their company local, they’ll keep their headquarters local, but they’ll have access to all of our capabilities. They’ll have access to our scale. We’ll be able to help them be more competitive. And it allows us to grow, and so it’s a win-win for everybody.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. So they get to keep their image in the community and their people doing what they do. So I’m assuming Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, because of scale, is able to bring things even behind the doors that is just going to help them all the way around.
Yeah. So they get to keep their image in the community and their people doing what they do. So I’m assuming Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, because of scale, is able to bring things even behind the doors that is just going to help them all the way around.
Lynda Rossi:
Absolutely. One of the big areas that all of the payers are looking to invest in is their digital capabilities, right? In their IT infrastructure. We’re already an at-scale player. We own NASCO, which is kind of the backend infrastructure, and we’re able to extend a lot of those capabilities. We’re making those investments anyways, we might as well be able to extend them to others.
Absolutely. One of the big areas that all of the payers are looking to invest in is their digital capabilities, right? In their IT infrastructure. We’re already an at-scale player. We own NASCO, which is kind of the backend infrastructure, and we’re able to extend a lot of those capabilities. We’re making those investments anyways, we might as well be able to extend them to others.
Chuck Gaidica:
And in a digital world, that seems like a fairly easy process then, right? To extend it out?
And in a digital world, that seems like a fairly easy process then, right? To extend it out?
Lynda Rossi:
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Chuck Gaidica:
Have the Blues of Michigan done anything like this before?
Have the Blues of Michigan done anything like this before?
Lynda Rossi:
We’ve done a lot of partnerships. Now, this is kind of the granddaddy of all partnerships, but we’ve done many partnerships. When we wanted to enter the Medicaid space, for example, we partnered with another Blue plan that had deep capabilities in the Medicaid space. We jointly own a company that’s national in scale now, but brought those capabilities to Michigan so that we could serve our Michigan members in the way that our brand deserves.
We’ve done a lot of partnerships. Now, this is kind of the granddaddy of all partnerships, but we’ve done many partnerships. When we wanted to enter the Medicaid space, for example, we partnered with another Blue plan that had deep capabilities in the Medicaid space. We jointly own a company that’s national in scale now, but brought those capabilities to Michigan so that we could serve our Michigan members in the way that our brand deserves.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. And as members, I guess there would be questions on the minds of members in Michigan, will this new partnership in Vermont affect them in any way that they would recognize?
Yeah. And as members, I guess there would be questions on the minds of members in Michigan, will this new partnership in Vermont affect them in any way that they would recognize?
Lynda Rossi:
It won’t. Our business stays local, Vermont’s business stays local, our provider relationships stay local. I think the Vermont folks will see it more clearly because they’re going to have a lower cost structure, and they’re going to be able to offer more affordable products in their market and actually more innovative products. So our members aren’t hurt by it, but the Vermont members really do benefit.
It won’t. Our business stays local, Vermont’s business stays local, our provider relationships stay local. I think the Vermont folks will see it more clearly because they’re going to have a lower cost structure, and they’re going to be able to offer more affordable products in their market and actually more innovative products. So our members aren’t hurt by it, but the Vermont members really do benefit.
Chuck Gaidica:
So if I have a Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan sticker on the back of my car, Vermont people should honk at me and wave, right?
So if I have a Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan sticker on the back of my car, Vermont people should honk at me and wave, right?
Lynda Rossi:
Right, they should thank you.
Right, they should thank you.
Chuck Gaidica:
That would be nice if we’re doing a little travel into the fall right up into New England. So talk about the deep rich history of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan reaching into communities, supporting efforts that matter to all of us. I’m assuming based on what you just said, this new partnership doesn’t influence any of that because there’s just so much that happens that’s so good about those investments.
That would be nice if we’re doing a little travel into the fall right up into New England. So talk about the deep rich history of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan reaching into communities, supporting efforts that matter to all of us. I’m assuming based on what you just said, this new partnership doesn’t influence any of that because there’s just so much that happens that’s so good about those investments.
Lynda Rossi:
Absolutely. And the nice thing about the Vermont partnership is we really do share a deep commitment to our mission, our local communities, and they are making great investments in their communities. We’re going to continue to make great investments in our communities, and we might actually learn a little bit from each other about what’s working in communities. And so there’s an opportunity for us to share some best practices, but our commitment hasn’t changed. It won’t change as a result of this, and you’ll see great things come out of us.
Absolutely. And the nice thing about the Vermont partnership is we really do share a deep commitment to our mission, our local communities, and they are making great investments in their communities. We’re going to continue to make great investments in our communities, and we might actually learn a little bit from each other about what’s working in communities. And so there’s an opportunity for us to share some best practices, but our commitment hasn’t changed. It won’t change as a result of this, and you’ll see great things come out of us.
Chuck Gaidica:
So anything else that’s going on that you can share with us relative to Vermont or any other partnerships?
So anything else that’s going on that you can share with us relative to Vermont or any other partnerships?
Lynda Rossi:
We’ve got a bunch of other partnerships that we do. I don’t know if you’re aware of them, but we’ve got a really innovative pharmacy partnership, it’s called Evio. We created a new company with four other Blue plans, and we’re really re-imagining the drug space and trying to bring more affordability to our members and the right drugs for the right purpose for the right person. And so we’re using data, we’re doing some great analytics out of that company.
We have a Medicare company that we’ve extended all of our capabilities to other Blue plans that just can’t invest in those capabilities. And so we’re doing great work there as well. And then the final piece, we talked a little bit about, it’s called NASCO, but that’s the whole backend. And so we do all the backend claims processing, servicing platforms for a number of other Blue plans.
We’ve got a bunch of other partnerships that we do. I don’t know if you’re aware of them, but we’ve got a really innovative pharmacy partnership, it’s called Evio. We created a new company with four other Blue plans, and we’re really re-imagining the drug space and trying to bring more affordability to our members and the right drugs for the right purpose for the right person. And so we’re using data, we’re doing some great analytics out of that company.
We have a Medicare company that we’ve extended all of our capabilities to other Blue plans that just can’t invest in those capabilities. And so we’re doing great work there as well. And then the final piece, we talked a little bit about, it’s called NASCO, but that’s the whole backend. And so we do all the backend claims processing, servicing platforms for a number of other Blue plans.
Chuck Gaidica:
I’m excited about the future. A lot of people are tentative about it. But when I see the space of health and wellness, I met somebody last night who’s actually at the conference who’s getting into genetic testing to see that if you take a drug, if you’re prescribed a drug, will it fit your profile so you don’t go home and have a bad reaction? Or it takes you three weeks to figure out, “Well, that’s not the right one. Let’s try another shot in the dark.” So the future of what’s coming, not only does it pare down cost, I suspect, but it also will help us as patients, if you will. So we’re getting the right care at the right moment, right?
I’m excited about the future. A lot of people are tentative about it. But when I see the space of health and wellness, I met somebody last night who’s actually at the conference who’s getting into genetic testing to see that if you take a drug, if you’re prescribed a drug, will it fit your profile so you don’t go home and have a bad reaction? Or it takes you three weeks to figure out, “Well, that’s not the right one. Let’s try another shot in the dark.” So the future of what’s coming, not only does it pare down cost, I suspect, but it also will help us as patients, if you will. So we’re getting the right care at the right moment, right?
Lynda Rossi:
Absolutely, yeah. It’s an exciting time in healthcare. So much innovation is happening, so much is changing and it’s hard to keep track of, but I think that the end game is going to benefit us all.
Absolutely, yeah. It’s an exciting time in healthcare. So much innovation is happening, so much is changing and it’s hard to keep track of, but I think that the end game is going to benefit us all.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Well, we’re glad that you’re giving us a kind of an update on what’s happening with Vermont. If folks listening want to check out more and get a little more info, where can they go?
Yeah. Well, we’re glad that you’re giving us a kind of an update on what’s happening with Vermont. If folks listening want to check out more and get a little more info, where can they go?
Lynda Rossi:
They can go to bcbsm.com/together.
They can go to bcbsm.com/together.
Chuck Gaidica:
Okay, great. Well, we’ll all go there and find out more. And when I go to… We’re talking about a New England trip. If I get to Vermont, I’ve got bragging rights, so I’ll let them know.
Okay, great. Well, we’ll all go there and find out more. And when I go to… We’re talking about a New England trip. If I get to Vermont, I’ve got bragging rights, so I’ll let them know.
Lynda Rossi:
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Chuck Gaidica:
Lynda, good to see you.
Lynda, good to see you.
Lynda Rossi:
Nice seeing you.
Nice seeing you.
Chuck Gaidica:
Thanks for dropping by. Lynda Rossi, Executive Vice President, Strategy, Innovation and Public Affairs, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan.
Thanks for dropping by. Lynda Rossi, Executive Vice President, Strategy, Innovation and Public Affairs, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan.
Next up is President and CEO of Henry Ford Health, Bob Riney.
Good to see you again.
Bob Riney:
Great to see you, Chuck.
Great to see you, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, lots going on in health and wellness and healthcare. And one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was this nationwide crisis of nurses and how that’s impacting Henry Ford Health directly. And then maybe a broader picture from you with all of your knowledge of what’s going on.
Yeah, lots going on in health and wellness and healthcare. And one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was this nationwide crisis of nurses and how that’s impacting Henry Ford Health directly. And then maybe a broader picture from you with all of your knowledge of what’s going on.
Bob Riney:
Well, unfortunately, there’s no quick solution because not only did the pandemic accelerate a lot of retirements, but the nursing population in the U.S. was aging, and so people getting closer and closer to retirement years. The good news is the schools are back full. There’s a lot of interest in nursing and there’s a lot of interest in immigration of nurses that are highly qualified from other parts of the world.
Well, unfortunately, there’s no quick solution because not only did the pandemic accelerate a lot of retirements, but the nursing population in the U.S. was aging, and so people getting closer and closer to retirement years. The good news is the schools are back full. There’s a lot of interest in nursing and there’s a lot of interest in immigration of nurses that are highly qualified from other parts of the world.
And at Henry Ford, we have over 600 nurses from the Philippines, English-speaking, that have accepted positions with us and are ready to relocate and be part of the population growth in Michigan, but we’re stuck with immigration problems in DC right now that we’re working on and hoping to move forward.
But between our schools really increasing the number of students domestically, and ultimately the ability to bring talented nurses in from around the world, I think we’ll solve this issue but it is not going to be solved nationally for another probably four or five years. It’s going to continue to put stress. I will say Henry Ford Health is doing really well because we focus so much on team-based medicine and culture that that’s attractive to nurses.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, and I’ve seen the numbers of a 100,000 short in the state of Michigan, not just at Henry Ford Health, so 600 sounds great. Is there still a connection to Canada or are they facing similar shortages? I would suspect so.
Well, and I’ve seen the numbers of a 100,000 short in the state of Michigan, not just at Henry Ford Health, so 600 sounds great. Is there still a connection to Canada or are they facing similar shortages? I would suspect so.
Bob Riney:
Windsor still produces a lot of wonderfully talented nurse graduates from their schools, and they continue to be attracted to the high-tech environments that we offer at places like Henry Ford Health. So they’re really drawn to our ICUs, our ERs, our ORs, and we still employ a lot of Canadian nurses. And I’ll tell you, it’s part of our richness of diversity at Henry Ford Health. It just makes for a better enterprise.
Windsor still produces a lot of wonderfully talented nurse graduates from their schools, and they continue to be attracted to the high-tech environments that we offer at places like Henry Ford Health. So they’re really drawn to our ICUs, our ERs, our ORs, and we still employ a lot of Canadian nurses. And I’ll tell you, it’s part of our richness of diversity at Henry Ford Health. It just makes for a better enterprise.
Chuck Gaidica:
So I’m just curious, even if it’s anecdotal, so we see some retirements going through COVID, right? We see the stressors and all the reasons why that could happen, including just age demographics. Are any baby boomers, anybody waking up and saying, “I should probably go back to that because I loved it?”
So I’m just curious, even if it’s anecdotal, so we see some retirements going through COVID, right? We see the stressors and all the reasons why that could happen, including just age demographics. Are any baby boomers, anybody waking up and saying, “I should probably go back to that because I loved it?”
Bob Riney:
We have had some return, and that’s been encouraging. We’ve had two groups. One, folks that when the pandemic hit, took the advantage of incredible salary offers to be travel nurses and just sort of go around the country. And they’re returning in big numbers because number one, the economics aren’t there post-pandemic. But the other is, “Okay, I did that and I want to have a home again,” so we’ve seen that.
And then we’ve also had some people that just understandably burned out during the pandemic, but after a year of respite, have said, “You know what? My work’s not done. I miss the patients.”
We have had some return, and that’s been encouraging. We’ve had two groups. One, folks that when the pandemic hit, took the advantage of incredible salary offers to be travel nurses and just sort of go around the country. And they’re returning in big numbers because number one, the economics aren’t there post-pandemic. But the other is, “Okay, I did that and I want to have a home again,” so we’ve seen that.
And then we’ve also had some people that just understandably burned out during the pandemic, but after a year of respite, have said, “You know what? My work’s not done. I miss the patients.”
Chuck Gaidica:
Because for many, it’s a calling. It’s not just a job.
Because for many, it’s a calling. It’s not just a job.
Bob Riney:
If it’s not a calling in part, it’s just a really hard job because you’re making such complex decisions and you’re dealing with such complex dynamics, not only with the patient, but the family and the caregiver team. And so we’re doing a lot to try and continue to help people lean into the calling aspect because that, at the end of the day, is what’s going to fuse their energy and fuel their souls.
If it’s not a calling in part, it’s just a really hard job because you’re making such complex decisions and you’re dealing with such complex dynamics, not only with the patient, but the family and the caregiver team. And so we’re doing a lot to try and continue to help people lean into the calling aspect because that, at the end of the day, is what’s going to fuse their energy and fuel their souls.
Pay is important, but passion and commitment and knowing that you’re making a difference, I think is what most of us wake up every day for.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, you would hope so. And I think that’s what we see as a good motivator. When you’re serving a cause bigger than self, your time even disappears in terms of what you’re doing. I admire my wife who has a hobby that she’s turned into a business and she goes downstairs to do this, and I have to remind her to come up for lunch. So when you disappear into that flow, it makes the job easier, and you see that you’re actually helping people. What a great idea.
Well, you would hope so. And I think that’s what we see as a good motivator. When you’re serving a cause bigger than self, your time even disappears in terms of what you’re doing. I admire my wife who has a hobby that she’s turned into a business and she goes downstairs to do this, and I have to remind her to come up for lunch. So when you disappear into that flow, it makes the job easier, and you see that you’re actually helping people. What a great idea.
Bob Riney:
Well, one of the things we’ve learned also from the pandemic is there was a necessary movement to work at home for most business environments. Healthcare workers didn’t ever have that option, but all the behind the scenes workers did. But we’re having people, in incredibly growing numbers, return to office. And in many ways, it’s because it’s hard to fuel the calling when you’re staring at a screen all day as opposed to being around your team that brings you energy, and hopefully, joy.
Well, one of the things we’ve learned also from the pandemic is there was a necessary movement to work at home for most business environments. Healthcare workers didn’t ever have that option, but all the behind the scenes workers did. But we’re having people, in incredibly growing numbers, return to office. And in many ways, it’s because it’s hard to fuel the calling when you’re staring at a screen all day as opposed to being around your team that brings you energy, and hopefully, joy.
Chuck Gaidica:
So if we have any ears, young or old, who are listening, what is it about becoming a nurse that you find, outside of this calling idea, what is it that makes it a place to look for their future?
So if we have any ears, young or old, who are listening, what is it about becoming a nurse that you find, outside of this calling idea, what is it that makes it a place to look for their future?
Bob Riney:
I would say a few things. One is there is so many different opportunities when you’re a nurse. People think of bedside nursing, but the reality is they’re making major contributions in leadership. They’re making major contributions in health insurance companies, in home healthcare, in technology-based companies. Three of our hospital presidents are nurses. I mean, they’re just a very talented group of individuals.
I would say a few things. One is there is so many different opportunities when you’re a nurse. People think of bedside nursing, but the reality is they’re making major contributions in leadership. They’re making major contributions in health insurance companies, in home healthcare, in technology-based companies. Three of our hospital presidents are nurses. I mean, they’re just a very talented group of individuals.
So I would tell people it offers you a career path. You can literally work anywhere you want in the country. You can work any shift you want. You can work in any type of environment you want. But at the end of the day, all of them are going to have one thing in common, and that’s that you’re going to get to know you’re making a difference when people are at their most vulnerable moment. Not many jobs get you that direct line of strength of your impact. And I think that alone is a really important point of driving people into this wonderful industry.
Chuck Gaidica:
So what else about Henry Ford Health can you share with us? Anything that’s happening that’s so exciting?
So what else about Henry Ford Health can you share with us? Anything that’s happening that’s so exciting?
Bob Riney:
We’ve got a lot of excitement. I will tell you that our Health Alliance Plan has just formed a partnership with a Medicaid company in multi-state called CareSources, and we’re really excited about that. And at our Henry Ford Hospital, we are spend spending over $2 billion to transform that campus in partnership with Michigan State University, our academic partner, and the Detroit Pistons and Platinum Equity. And so it’s going to be not only a new hospital, but it’s going to have multi-income housing. It’s going to have a new research building. This is going to be one of the biggest developments in the city of Detroit in decades, and we’re so excited. It’s our time. This campus has been serving this community for 107 years, and we’re going to build for the next hundred.
We’ve got a lot of excitement. I will tell you that our Health Alliance Plan has just formed a partnership with a Medicaid company in multi-state called CareSources, and we’re really excited about that. And at our Henry Ford Hospital, we are spend spending over $2 billion to transform that campus in partnership with Michigan State University, our academic partner, and the Detroit Pistons and Platinum Equity. And so it’s going to be not only a new hospital, but it’s going to have multi-income housing. It’s going to have a new research building. This is going to be one of the biggest developments in the city of Detroit in decades, and we’re so excited. It’s our time. This campus has been serving this community for 107 years, and we’re going to build for the next hundred.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, I have to just admit to you and disclaim for everybody listening, Henry Ford Health is my team. You’re my go-to team.
Well, I have to just admit to you and disclaim for everybody listening, Henry Ford Health is my team. You’re my go-to team.
Bob Riney:
And you look great, so there we are.
And you look great, so there we are.
Chuck Gaidica:
Wasn’t that Billy Crystal on Saturday Night Live? “You look marvelous. It’s not how you feel, it’s how you look.” Well, from your mouth to God’s ears, I hope it stays that way. Bob, it’s good to see you.
Wasn’t that Billy Crystal on Saturday Night Live? “You look marvelous. It’s not how you feel, it’s how you look.” Well, from your mouth to God’s ears, I hope it stays that way. Bob, it’s good to see you.
Bob Riney:
It’s great to see you, Chuck.
It’s great to see you, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, thanks so much. Bob Riney, who’s President and CEO of Henry Ford Health, and they’re the ones making me look good. Take good care.
Yeah, thanks so much. Bob Riney, who’s President and CEO of Henry Ford Health, and they’re the ones making me look good. Take good care.
And now, Senior Vice President and Chief Strategy Officer of Michigan Health & Hospital Association, Ruthanne Sudderth.
Good to see you as always.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
It’s wonderful to be back. Thanks for having me.
It’s wonderful to be back. Thanks for having me.
Chuck Gaidica:
Isn’t it nice?
Isn’t it nice?
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Oh, it’s beautiful.
Oh, it’s beautiful.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
I think this is the best weather week we’ve ever had at the Policy Conference.
I think this is the best weather week we’ve ever had at the Policy Conference.
Chuck Gaidica:
Very comfortable.
Very comfortable.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Very comfortable.
Very comfortable.
Chuck Gaidica:
I called home and it sounds like in Florida, “How are we at home?” And it’s like, “Oh, it’s almost 90.” So as soon as we get off the island, we’ll realize the air conditioning didn’t continue.
I called home and it sounds like in Florida, “How are we at home?” And it’s like, “Oh, it’s almost 90.” So as soon as we get off the island, we’ll realize the air conditioning didn’t continue.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Yeah, the heat wave is here.
Yeah, the heat wave is here.
Chuck Gaidica:
So we’ve had a discussion already with one of our guests, Bob Riney, about this idea of shortages of staff in hospital settings, right? Nurses in particular, but you’re talking about staffing across boards. Talk about this idea of staffing levels and outcomes that you’re seeing by this change that maybe accelerated during the pandemic.
So we’ve had a discussion already with one of our guests, Bob Riney, about this idea of shortages of staff in hospital settings, right? Nurses in particular, but you’re talking about staffing across boards. Talk about this idea of staffing levels and outcomes that you’re seeing by this change that maybe accelerated during the pandemic.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Absolutely. We’ve had a nursing shortage for quite a long time now as our nursing workforce has aged and retired out of the field. And the pandemic really exacerbated that shortage. And so, right now, it’s really contributing to an ability to deliver care in a timely fashion.
We have about 1700 fewer staffed beds in hospitals than we did before the pandemic that we’ve had to take offline because of staffing shortages. And that leads directly to patient access and how long you have to wait to get a bed or to be admitted. So it’s a real issue, and we feel it every day on the ground.
Absolutely. We’ve had a nursing shortage for quite a long time now as our nursing workforce has aged and retired out of the field. And the pandemic really exacerbated that shortage. And so, right now, it’s really contributing to an ability to deliver care in a timely fashion.
We have about 1700 fewer staffed beds in hospitals than we did before the pandemic that we’ve had to take offline because of staffing shortages. And that leads directly to patient access and how long you have to wait to get a bed or to be admitted. So it’s a real issue, and we feel it every day on the ground.
Chuck Gaidica:
So during the pandemic, there were retirements, some people saying, “This is the end of the line for me.” We had visiting nurses kind of go out. Are we seeing that wave come back? Are they coming back into their communities and staying put?
So during the pandemic, there were retirements, some people saying, “This is the end of the line for me.” We had visiting nurses kind of go out. Are we seeing that wave come back? Are they coming back into their communities and staying put?
Ruthanne Sudderth:
We have seen a decline in the use of agency and traveling nursing from the height of the pandemic, that’s for sure. At certain points, they were at astronomical levels. The rates to pay them were really, really high, and cost of care is an issue too. So we’ve seen those come back down to reasonable levels, but because of the shortage, there’s still a role for traveling staff and nurses to make sure that we can provide bedside care.
We have seen a decline in the use of agency and traveling nursing from the height of the pandemic, that’s for sure. At certain points, they were at astronomical levels. The rates to pay them were really, really high, and cost of care is an issue too. So we’ve seen those come back down to reasonable levels, but because of the shortage, there’s still a role for traveling staff and nurses to make sure that we can provide bedside care.
Chuck Gaidica:
But as a career, for someone thinking about this, who’s listening right now, for their ears, the potential for going into nursing is great because what jobs can you think about where you can go to any city you’d like, you’re in demand, you can maybe kind of pick and choose hours, you can move up, you can continue following degrees, if you’re a lifelong learner, that’s your thing. There’s just so much about it that seems attractive and you’re serving a cause greater than self.
But as a career, for someone thinking about this, who’s listening right now, for their ears, the potential for going into nursing is great because what jobs can you think about where you can go to any city you’d like, you’re in demand, you can maybe kind of pick and choose hours, you can move up, you can continue following degrees, if you’re a lifelong learner, that’s your thing. There’s just so much about it that seems attractive and you’re serving a cause greater than self.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Absolutely, you hit the nail on the head. We have 8,500 posted nursing positions right now in Michigan Hospitals alone. That doesn’t count nursing homes, doctor’s offices. So you can get a job as a nurse right now anywhere you want one.
Absolutely, you hit the nail on the head. We have 8,500 posted nursing positions right now in Michigan Hospitals alone. That doesn’t count nursing homes, doctor’s offices. So you can get a job as a nurse right now anywhere you want one.
And we’re doing a lot of things to make sure that those nurses feel supported and safe at work. We’re doing things to make sure that violence against nurses and other staff is prevented, and that people understand that that’s not okay. We’re doing things to make sure that they have support to go into the field and have financial support to go through the training programs and education that they need to do. So there are a lot of opportunities both for people that are maybe entering their college years and considering a degree in nursing or that already work in the field.
So we’re doing everything we can to support our nurses. We love them, and we couldn’t do it without them. So we just need 8,500 more right now, then we’ll feel a little better. But seriously, it’s a pipeline issue and we have to do all the things in the policy space that we can to make sure that we’re backfilling those positions, and starting young with kids to help them understand those opportunities.
So we’re doing everything we can to support our nurses. We love them, and we couldn’t do it without them. So we just need 8,500 more right now, then we’ll feel a little better. But seriously, it’s a pipeline issue and we have to do all the things in the policy space that we can to make sure that we’re backfilling those positions, and starting young with kids to help them understand those opportunities.
Chuck Gaidica:
And looking to start young with those kids, talk about the particulars of education. The on-ramp to become a nurse means what? Refresh our memories. How long do you have to go to school?
And looking to start young with those kids, talk about the particulars of education. The on-ramp to become a nurse means what? Refresh our memories. How long do you have to go to school?
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Well, you can be a nurse at a lot of different levels. There are two-year degree programs that are community colleges. And with the Michigan Reconnect Program, you can get free college tuition at the community college and go into an LPN program. You can also do a four-year degree program or advanced practice nursing. So there are all different levels.
You can also be a nursing assistant and find out if that’s something that you like and enjoy and it’s a good fit for you before you dedicate a full career to it. So there are all sorts of ways to get into nursing and certainly opportunities to advance into the field and have a really long and successful career where you are making a difference.
Well, you can be a nurse at a lot of different levels. There are two-year degree programs that are community colleges. And with the Michigan Reconnect Program, you can get free college tuition at the community college and go into an LPN program. You can also do a four-year degree program or advanced practice nursing. So there are all different levels.
You can also be a nursing assistant and find out if that’s something that you like and enjoy and it’s a good fit for you before you dedicate a full career to it. So there are all sorts of ways to get into nursing and certainly opportunities to advance into the field and have a really long and successful career where you are making a difference.
Chuck Gaidica:
And if you care to, as I mentioned, go from your associates to a bachelor’s and keep on moving, that’s possible too. And probably some employer along the way will help you pay for that.
And if you care to, as I mentioned, go from your associates to a bachelor’s and keep on moving, that’s possible too. And probably some employer along the way will help you pay for that.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Yes, and a lot of our hospitals right now have partnerships with universities and colleges to make that happen and to provide on-the-job training. There are apprenticeship models as well. So, all sorts of great opportunities, whether you’re in rural Michigan or in a big city in Detroit or Grand Rapids.
Yes, and a lot of our hospitals right now have partnerships with universities and colleges to make that happen and to provide on-the-job training. There are apprenticeship models as well. So, all sorts of great opportunities, whether you’re in rural Michigan or in a big city in Detroit or Grand Rapids.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. So when you look at the future, near-term and even long-term, where do you see the pipeline opening? Is it from foreign talent from… Well, we have known for a long time about nurses that travel from Windsor over to Detroit and back and forth, right? But it’s getting broader, it’s becoming a worldwide import proposition, right?
Yeah. So when you look at the future, near-term and even long-term, where do you see the pipeline opening? Is it from foreign talent from… Well, we have known for a long time about nurses that travel from Windsor over to Detroit and back and forth, right? But it’s getting broader, it’s becoming a worldwide import proposition, right?
Ruthanne Sudderth:
It sure is. Yeah, immigration has to be part of this conversation. We want to find talent within Michigan. We want to attract people from other states and doing things like the National Nurse Licensure Compact, which would allow nurses to practice in Michigan with a license from another state. Those are all parts of the solution, but there’s no silver bullet. We need international nurses as well. And we have members like Henry Ford Health who are doing a lot of work in that space.
It sure is. Yeah, immigration has to be part of this conversation. We want to find talent within Michigan. We want to attract people from other states and doing things like the National Nurse Licensure Compact, which would allow nurses to practice in Michigan with a license from another state. Those are all parts of the solution, but there’s no silver bullet. We need international nurses as well. And we have members like Henry Ford Health who are doing a lot of work in that space.
Chuck Gaidica:
And are you finding success there? So, the immigration thing, I remember years ago when we looked at Silicon Valley, and we were able to attract some of the best of the best talent through immigration from other countries. Well, they had special dispensation to come here. Isn’t that something that we should be working toward at breakneck speed, right?
And are you finding success there? So, the immigration thing, I remember years ago when we looked at Silicon Valley, and we were able to attract some of the best of the best talent through immigration from other countries. Well, they had special dispensation to come here. Isn’t that something that we should be working toward at breakneck speed, right?
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Absolutely, we should be at breakneck speed. And immigration is a very slow issue to make progress in for a lot of political reasons and otherwise, but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. And so we’re doing everything we can with partners from the business community and other sectors to get the attention back on this issue, work with our congressional delegation to help them understand what a difference it could make to bring in more international healthcare workers.
Absolutely, we should be at breakneck speed. And immigration is a very slow issue to make progress in for a lot of political reasons and otherwise, but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. And so we’re doing everything we can with partners from the business community and other sectors to get the attention back on this issue, work with our congressional delegation to help them understand what a difference it could make to bring in more international healthcare workers.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. So for you, are you optimistic about the future then as you start to see what’s changing post-pandemic?
Yeah. So for you, are you optimistic about the future then as you start to see what’s changing post-pandemic?
Ruthanne Sudderth:
I am optimistic about the future. I think that the passion and the dedication that people have, who work in healthcare, is something that can’t be matched in another career field. And the people who do stay and work in healthcare just make such a huge difference and go home at the end of the day knowing that they saved a life, and that gives me hope and optimism that we can bring a lot more people into the healthcare field.
I am optimistic about the future. I think that the passion and the dedication that people have, who work in healthcare, is something that can’t be matched in another career field. And the people who do stay and work in healthcare just make such a huge difference and go home at the end of the day knowing that they saved a life, and that gives me hope and optimism that we can bring a lot more people into the healthcare field.
And we’re going to be launching a statewide healthcare career campaign just in the coming days to try to bring more people into healthcare, and also educate kids about all the opportunities exist that aren’t being a nurse or a doctor. It’s not for everyone, but you can be in IT, you can help protect health information. You can work in marketing. You can work in food services or sanitation. There are all sorts of jobs that aren’t necessarily at the bedside that provide long, stable, good paying jobs.
Chuck Gaidica:
And how many careers can you look at where people are considered heroes?
And how many careers can you look at where people are considered heroes?
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Right, absolutely. The largest private sector employer in Michigan is healthcare, and 520,000 people work in healthcare directly. And they’re all heroes in our eyes, and we need a few more.
Right, absolutely. The largest private sector employer in Michigan is healthcare, and 520,000 people work in healthcare directly. And they’re all heroes in our eyes, and we need a few more.
Chuck Gaidica:
And that’s quite an economic driver of Michigan’s economy as well.
And that’s quite an economic driver of Michigan’s economy as well.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Ruthanne Sudderth, good to have you with us.
Yeah. Ruthanne Sudderth, good to have you with us.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
Always good to be here, thanks for having me.
Always good to be here, thanks for having me.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Ruthanne is a Senior Vice President and Chief Strategy Officer for the Michigan Health & Hospital Association. Take good care.
Yeah. Ruthanne is a Senior Vice President and Chief Strategy Officer for the Michigan Health & Hospital Association. Take good care.
Ruthanne Sudderth:
You too. Thanks, Chuck.
You too. Thanks, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Next is CEO of the Michigan Health Endowment Fund, Neel Hajra.
Next is CEO of the Michigan Health Endowment Fund, Neel Hajra.
Good to see you.
Neel Hajra:
Nice to see my childhood weatherman, Chuck. It’s a real pleasure.
Nice to see my childhood weatherman, Chuck. It’s a real pleasure.
Chuck Gaidica:
Oh my gosh, I just aged 50 years. That’s awesome. Well, I’m glad you were watching, that put the kids through college.
Oh my gosh, I just aged 50 years. That’s awesome. Well, I’m glad you were watching, that put the kids through college.
Neel Hajra:
Yeah.
Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Nice to have you with us.
Nice to have you with us.
Neel Hajra:
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, we need to talk about so many different things because obviously Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Michigan is involved in health and wellness all the time. But the Michigan Health Endowment Fund has got very special missions, not just one mission, but lots of off-ramps to your grand mission, right? Can you talk about that?
Well, we need to talk about so many different things because obviously Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Michigan is involved in health and wellness all the time. But the Michigan Health Endowment Fund has got very special missions, not just one mission, but lots of off-ramps to your grand mission, right? Can you talk about that?
Neel Hajra:
Yeah, sure. The Michigan Health Endowment Fund is less than a decade old, so we’re still kind of a young foundation, but we are the largest health foundation in Michigan. Our mission is to improve the health and wellness of Michiganders with a focus on seniors and children. And another part of our mission is to reduce the cost of healthcare.
Yeah, sure. The Michigan Health Endowment Fund is less than a decade old, so we’re still kind of a young foundation, but we are the largest health foundation in Michigan. Our mission is to improve the health and wellness of Michiganders with a focus on seniors and children. And another part of our mission is to reduce the cost of healthcare.
And so for the last nine years, we’ve been focusing on healthy aging. We are an aging state, and there are a lot of folks that we think we can help in that regard. Behavioral health, and we all know that mental health and behavioral health issues are really coming to the fore for everybody. So we’re really trying to ride this wave of destigmatization and taking advantage of many more people being aware of the issues there. And then nutrition and healthy lifestyles, because we know that a lot of healthcare isn’t based in the clinics or hospitals, but rather in how you live and your surrounding environment.
And then finally, we’ve been doing a lot more community-driven health initiatives where we actually pose to communities, what are your greatest challenges and what do you think the solutions are? How can we empower you to pursue those? So rather than a top-down approach from us, we try to take a community-driven approach.
And then finally, we’ve been doing a lot more community-driven health initiatives where we actually pose to communities, what are your greatest challenges and what do you think the solutions are? How can we empower you to pursue those? So rather than a top-down approach from us, we try to take a community-driven approach.
Chuck Gaidica:
Kind of a listening tour, right?
Kind of a listening tour, right?
Neel Hajra:
Yeah, a listening tour and really paired with action and driven by community, and that’s a key. And philanthropy, that’s been a big trend over the last decade or more. And we’re really committed to deepening the role of community voice and how we make our decisions on where money goes.
Yeah, a listening tour and really paired with action and driven by community, and that’s a key. And philanthropy, that’s been a big trend over the last decade or more. And we’re really committed to deepening the role of community voice and how we make our decisions on where money goes.
Chuck Gaidica:
So for all of it, we’re all aging. And for all of us, when you talk about seniors and their healthcare, it seems to me that we’ve now started to shift to focus not just to lifespan, but to health span. We don’t want to have the last 15 years of life be crummy.
So for all of it, we’re all aging. And for all of us, when you talk about seniors and their healthcare, it seems to me that we’ve now started to shift to focus not just to lifespan, but to health span. We don’t want to have the last 15 years of life be crummy.
Neel Hajra:
That’s right. And I’m sure we all have beloved elders where we watch what their windows are for quality life. And you’re absolutely right, Chuck. We talk a lot about lifespan and life expectancy, but really the question is when you’re 70, 80, 90, or even a 100 in Michigan, why can’t you still have a thriving life? Why can’t you still make the most of it? Why can’t you enjoy the benefits of a longer lifespan? And there are some who are doing it, but many more who lack the resources, the family support, the environment, or even the locations that lend themselves to a healthy aging lifestyle.
That’s right. And I’m sure we all have beloved elders where we watch what their windows are for quality life. And you’re absolutely right, Chuck. We talk a lot about lifespan and life expectancy, but really the question is when you’re 70, 80, 90, or even a 100 in Michigan, why can’t you still have a thriving life? Why can’t you still make the most of it? Why can’t you enjoy the benefits of a longer lifespan? And there are some who are doing it, but many more who lack the resources, the family support, the environment, or even the locations that lend themselves to a healthy aging lifestyle.
Chuck Gaidica:
So how does the Endowment Fund step into help then in those realms?
So how does the Endowment Fund step into help then in those realms?
Neel Hajra:
Yeah, that’s a great question. So we do do a lot of funding of what you typically think of groups, medical facilities, universities, and other larger institutions that focus on serving older adults, but we do also focus a lot on equity issues. So, for example, we know that aging in Detroit looks very different than aging in, let’s say, St. Joe’s. And so what we try to do is tailor who we’re funding and what the solutions are based on the communities that we’re addressing.
Yeah, that’s a great question. So we do do a lot of funding of what you typically think of groups, medical facilities, universities, and other larger institutions that focus on serving older adults, but we do also focus a lot on equity issues. So, for example, we know that aging in Detroit looks very different than aging in, let’s say, St. Joe’s. And so what we try to do is tailor who we’re funding and what the solutions are based on the communities that we’re addressing.
And I’ll give you another example. Aging folks who are LGBTQ have a very different circumstance. They spent decades probably being either ostracized or excluded from access to a lot of the things that folks need for a healthy lifestyle. And so they need a different solution than say, other populations that we work with.
So sometimes the solutions are actually grassroots community groups who really specialize in certain neighborhoods or populations of aging folks. And other times we take the macro approach. So, for example, we’ve been focusing a lot on direct care workforce. We know there’s a shortage of direct care workforce that’s critical for quality caregiving for older adults. That’s a macro policy issue, so we’re trying to work both ends of the solution.
Chuck Gaidica:
And then sometimes, it’s basic as we’ve got winter, comes around about the same time every year in Michigan, getting out and going for a walk. Just moving becomes a challenge for some who are bound or in a city where walking to a local park or something, for many of us, is just what we think is normal. They’re just things that we take for granted in some communities where others, it’s a challenge.
And then sometimes, it’s basic as we’ve got winter, comes around about the same time every year in Michigan, getting out and going for a walk. Just moving becomes a challenge for some who are bound or in a city where walking to a local park or something, for many of us, is just what we think is normal. They’re just things that we take for granted in some communities where others, it’s a challenge.
Neel Hajra:
That’s totally spot on, and it’s actually something that we refer to in the field as built environment. So what does the neighborhood look like that you’re in? How do you connect even when you can walk? Can you walk to your grocery store? Can you walk to the resources that you need?
And we know that actually a lot of the solutions for older adults benefit entire age ranges and entire populations. So the classic example is when you make a neighborhood more walkable, kids benefit, families benefit and older adults benefit. So the work we do in healthy aging actually has a much wider set of benefits for communities in general.
That’s totally spot on, and it’s actually something that we refer to in the field as built environment. So what does the neighborhood look like that you’re in? How do you connect even when you can walk? Can you walk to your grocery store? Can you walk to the resources that you need?
And we know that actually a lot of the solutions for older adults benefit entire age ranges and entire populations. So the classic example is when you make a neighborhood more walkable, kids benefit, families benefit and older adults benefit. So the work we do in healthy aging actually has a much wider set of benefits for communities in general.
Chuck Gaidica:
It’s funny you mention that because we just interviewed, in one of the podcasts here at the conference, the head of the Michigan Humane Society, and I happen to say what I say all the time: “My dogs take me for a walk.” He said, “The amount of money that healthcare saves by our pets getting us out to exercise is astounding.” The upside to that, you don’t think about it that much, but it’s really true.
It’s funny you mention that because we just interviewed, in one of the podcasts here at the conference, the head of the Michigan Humane Society, and I happen to say what I say all the time: “My dogs take me for a walk.” He said, “The amount of money that healthcare saves by our pets getting us out to exercise is astounding.” The upside to that, you don’t think about it that much, but it’s really true.
Neel Hajra:
And I would also add social isolation is a very real issue in Michigan as families have spread across the country, and as families have gotten smaller over the last century. So I would add that having a pet as a companion, you’d be surprised at how much of an impact that makes on the health outcome in addition to the physical activity that it encourages.
And I would also add social isolation is a very real issue in Michigan as families have spread across the country, and as families have gotten smaller over the last century. So I would add that having a pet as a companion, you’d be surprised at how much of an impact that makes on the health outcome in addition to the physical activity that it encourages.
Chuck Gaidica:
Last week, I think I read the headline, the article was about how we, as Americans, 50% of us I think is what came in, look at our pets as our soulmate. It’s like, “Wow.”
But we’re in a time of millennials and baby boomers together, are individually saying that loneliness is increasing. And you think, “Wow, in a social media world, well, they’re not all my real friends. I mean, if I get a flat tire on my way out of Mackinaw City, my thousands of Facebook friends aren’t going to help come change my tire.” So we’re living in a time where we think we have more friends that keep us connected. And yet really, some of us are feeling more lonely, which is kind of a sad commentary.
Last week, I think I read the headline, the article was about how we, as Americans, 50% of us I think is what came in, look at our pets as our soulmate. It’s like, “Wow.”
But we’re in a time of millennials and baby boomers together, are individually saying that loneliness is increasing. And you think, “Wow, in a social media world, well, they’re not all my real friends. I mean, if I get a flat tire on my way out of Mackinaw City, my thousands of Facebook friends aren’t going to help come change my tire.” So we’re living in a time where we think we have more friends that keep us connected. And yet really, some of us are feeling more lonely, which is kind of a sad commentary.
Neel Hajra:
Yeah. There is a role for technology in decreasing social isolation. But to your point, we’re more connected than ever, and as a population in Michigan and the country lonelier than ever, so we know just throwing apps at people isn’t going to work. So we’re actually part of a national coalition of health funders who are looking at what kind of technologies are accessible to older adults and actually create a real social bond that will improve their health outcomes, extend their quality of life. And it’s more complicated than saying, “Here’s Facebook. Have at it.”
Yeah. There is a role for technology in decreasing social isolation. But to your point, we’re more connected than ever, and as a population in Michigan and the country lonelier than ever, so we know just throwing apps at people isn’t going to work. So we’re actually part of a national coalition of health funders who are looking at what kind of technologies are accessible to older adults and actually create a real social bond that will improve their health outcomes, extend their quality of life. And it’s more complicated than saying, “Here’s Facebook. Have at it.”
Chuck Gaidica:
Right. So we’ve talked a lot about seniors. Also, there’s a lot of initiatives with the Endowment Fund toward maternal health, infant health, because we can look at all age rages. And we’re also looking at populations that are shrinking, so the futures can be set if we’re not looking to bring kids into the world and bring them to the world healthfully.
Right. So we’ve talked a lot about seniors. Also, there’s a lot of initiatives with the Endowment Fund toward maternal health, infant health, because we can look at all age rages. And we’re also looking at populations that are shrinking, so the futures can be set if we’re not looking to bring kids into the world and bring them to the world healthfully.
Neel Hajra:
Yeah. And so speaking of the future, I think that’s one through line we’re going to maintain is we’ve just started focusing on maternal infant health as a separate grant program. We’re only in our second year. If I could see the future, and our board will decide with the staff, I think that’s something we’ll get more and more involved with. Because the opportunity to capture kids literally when they’re born can impact their health outcomes at an early age, it has so many downstream benefits.
Yeah. And so speaking of the future, I think that’s one through line we’re going to maintain is we’ve just started focusing on maternal infant health as a separate grant program. We’re only in our second year. If I could see the future, and our board will decide with the staff, I think that’s something we’ll get more and more involved with. Because the opportunity to capture kids literally when they’re born can impact their health outcomes at an early age, it has so many downstream benefits.
And I will also add, from an equity standpoint, Black mothers die at a shockingly higher rate than other populations. And Black babies suffer from more complications than other populations. So we’ve been doing a lot of work focusing on Black mothers and Black babies throughout Michigan to make sure that we can improve their outcomes because the data just takes us there.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, and the disparities go across the board. In seniors, for instance, if you’re an African-American male, a counterpart to myself, the chances of you getting through social security, in other words, being able to partake in what you paid for your entire lifetime, the demographics show that you’re not going to get the same benefit that I may get as an average white male of my age. So the disparities go from infancy all the way through the seniors.
Well, and the disparities go across the board. In seniors, for instance, if you’re an African-American male, a counterpart to myself, the chances of you getting through social security, in other words, being able to partake in what you paid for your entire lifetime, the demographics show that you’re not going to get the same benefit that I may get as an average white male of my age. So the disparities go from infancy all the way through the seniors.
Neel Hajra:
That’s right, and I’ll share one other shocking stat. We’re starting to do work in Flint around an exciting new program that’s focused on mothers and infants. A child born Black in the city of Flint will live, on average, 20 years less than a white child born at the same time from a surrounding community.
That’s right, and I’ll share one other shocking stat. We’re starting to do work in Flint around an exciting new program that’s focused on mothers and infants. A child born Black in the city of Flint will live, on average, 20 years less than a white child born at the same time from a surrounding community.
Chuck Gaidica:
That’s an astounding number.
That’s an astounding number.
Neel Hajra:
It’s obviously unacceptable. That’s why I’m so excited about what the health fund can do. And then I’ll just mention, just to tout our model, the one luxury we have, and I came out of Corporate America, philanthropy has luxury of time. So when we talk about the future, we don’t think in one- and two-year chunks. We think in five-, seven-, and 10-year chunks. So the work that I’m describing to you now, Chuck, a lot of it, we’re committed to over the long haul so that we can see what works, what doesn’t, and then keep iterating. But we’re not going to jump from strategy to strategy from every year.
It’s obviously unacceptable. That’s why I’m so excited about what the health fund can do. And then I’ll just mention, just to tout our model, the one luxury we have, and I came out of Corporate America, philanthropy has luxury of time. So when we talk about the future, we don’t think in one- and two-year chunks. We think in five-, seven-, and 10-year chunks. So the work that I’m describing to you now, Chuck, a lot of it, we’re committed to over the long haul so that we can see what works, what doesn’t, and then keep iterating. But we’re not going to jump from strategy to strategy from every year.
Chuck Gaidica:
But those babies that you’re talking about, they come into the world with more health and they start to grow up, and now you’re preventing diabetes down the road.
But those babies that you’re talking about, they come into the world with more health and they start to grow up, and now you’re preventing diabetes down the road.
Neel Hajra:
That’s right.
That’s right.
Chuck Gaidica:
You’re preventing all these things that they could just trip into because, and here you are helping save that. So as you look to the future goals beyond what you’ve discussed, what do you see here in the next five to 10 years?
You’re preventing all these things that they could just trip into because, and here you are helping save that. So as you look to the future goals beyond what you’ve discussed, what do you see here in the next five to 10 years?
Neel Hajra:
Sure. In terms of the subject matter we’re focusing on, what we’ve talked about already I think is going to be our main focus areas. I’ll say in how we do our work, it’s evolving. I mentioned the incorporation of community voice into our work, that’s only going to continue. Our commitment to equity, to looking at data and unraveling it, figuring out which populations suffer in what ways, and what can we do about it by crafting unique solutions, we’re going to double down on that for sure.
Sure. In terms of the subject matter we’re focusing on, what we’ve talked about already I think is going to be our main focus areas. I’ll say in how we do our work, it’s evolving. I mentioned the incorporation of community voice into our work, that’s only going to continue. Our commitment to equity, to looking at data and unraveling it, figuring out which populations suffer in what ways, and what can we do about it by crafting unique solutions, we’re going to double down on that for sure.
We periodically survey all of our, not just grantees, but folks who were rejected by us. And we ask, “What can we do better to be more accessible to you in your communities?” That’s every couple of years, we reiterate how we make our grants. That’s going to continue into the future.
And then finally, we’re going to keep moving upstream. So we’re going to work with younger populations such as children. And we’re going to also examine outside of the health clinic or health care setting, what are the other environmental factors that we can focus on that we know have a major impact on the long-term health of Michiganders?
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, I’m encouraged about the future. I know so many people get a little skittish about AI and all that’s coming, but if you’re able to take data points and drill down to exactly the population to help, and here’s how, it’s a win for everybody.
Well, I’m encouraged about the future. I know so many people get a little skittish about AI and all that’s coming, but if you’re able to take data points and drill down to exactly the population to help, and here’s how, it’s a win for everybody.
Neel Hajra:
Yeah. It’s easy to be pessimistic because we’re bombarded by bad news, but I’m personally an optimist and that’s why I’m at the Health Endowment Fund.
Yeah. It’s easy to be pessimistic because we’re bombarded by bad news, but I’m personally an optimist and that’s why I’m at the Health Endowment Fund.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, Neel Hajra, good to have you with us.
Well, Neel Hajra, good to have you with us.
Neel Hajra:
Thank you, Chuck. Appreciate it.
Thank you, Chuck. Appreciate it.
Chuck Gaidica:
Thanks. Neel is the CEO of Michigan Health Endowment Fund. Take good care.
Thanks. Neel is the CEO of Michigan Health Endowment Fund. Take good care.
Neel Hajra:
Thank you.
Thank you.
Chuck Gaidica:
And finally, Chief Operating Officer of Arab Community Center for Economic and Social Services, ACCESS, Lina Harajli.
And finally, Chief Operating Officer of Arab Community Center for Economic and Social Services, ACCESS, Lina Harajli.
It is good to see you.
Lina Harajli:
It is wonderful to be here. Thank you so much, Chuck.
It is wonderful to be here. Thank you so much, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
What nice weather, it’s like natural air conditioning.
What nice weather, it’s like natural air conditioning.
Lina Harajli:
I am so surprised because it’s my first time coming up to Mackinac and everybody told me dress for everything: Plan for rain, snow, everything. And it’s been gorgeous.
I am so surprised because it’s my first time coming up to Mackinac and everybody told me dress for everything: Plan for rain, snow, everything. And it’s been gorgeous.
Chuck Gaidica:
Not this time. Just a little chill, but that’s okay. We’re walking in a lot of places, so it works out all right.
Not this time. Just a little chill, but that’s okay. We’re walking in a lot of places, so it works out all right.
Lina Harajli:
We’re Michiganders. We got this.
We’re Michiganders. We got this.
Chuck Gaidica:
So let’s talk about ACCESS and your Behavioral Health Department because you provide so much integrative care to many clients. Talk about that.
So let’s talk about ACCESS and your Behavioral Health Department because you provide so much integrative care to many clients. Talk about that.
Lina Harajli:
Absolutely. So ACCESS has been around for 50 years. We have 120 programs in four different divisions. And for us, our Community Health and Research Center, which is the largest division within ACCESS, has more than 120 behavioral health professionals serving more than 6,000 clients.
Absolutely. So ACCESS has been around for 50 years. We have 120 programs in four different divisions. And for us, our Community Health and Research Center, which is the largest division within ACCESS, has more than 120 behavioral health professionals serving more than 6,000 clients.
And so the uniqueness of our model is that it’s a wraparound model. So we don’t only think about behavioral health. It’s also about how do we make sure that basic services are also taken care of? How do you think about your health when you can’t put food on the table? And then how do you have a sustainable wage? Well, you need workforce development. It’s right here. We have that warm handoff right here at ACCESS where we can provide all of that.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, those are so many off-ramps that sometimes there are many organizations that stop there without food, without a mattress for kids to sleep on, and then we expect them to do well in school the next day. What about transportation to get to a job? There’s so many different things to think about.
Well, those are so many off-ramps that sometimes there are many organizations that stop there without food, without a mattress for kids to sleep on, and then we expect them to do well in school the next day. What about transportation to get to a job? There’s so many different things to think about.
Lina Harajli:
Absolutely. So our 21st Century program handles 2000 students’ needs every single day, meaning that in the 27 schools that we’re at, we make sure that academic intervention is just the start of it when it comes to behavioral health, especially after COVID, right? Things were already hard enough, and then especially for the students and what they had to go through, it’s something that we’ve seen an uptick of more than 50% in terms of behavioral health needs.
Absolutely. So our 21st Century program handles 2000 students’ needs every single day, meaning that in the 27 schools that we’re at, we make sure that academic intervention is just the start of it when it comes to behavioral health, especially after COVID, right? Things were already hard enough, and then especially for the students and what they had to go through, it’s something that we’ve seen an uptick of more than 50% in terms of behavioral health needs.
Chuck Gaidica:
And still going through it.
And still going through it.
Lina Harajli:
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, even though we’re told COVID is over, and pretty much based on this event alone.
Yeah, even though we’re told COVID is over, and pretty much based on this event alone.
Lina Harajli:
The impact of COVID on behavioral health and on substance use, because 60% of the time, both behavioral health and substance use are actually co-occurring, right? So they really go hand-in-hand because when you’re prescribed the opioids or whatever it is, these kinds of drugs, it has that effect of getting you to a place where you are now, on top of your behavioral health issues, you’re also addicted to opioids, which can be a real gateway drug. So that, next thing you know, you’re actually on the street, and now you have both of these to deal with.
The impact of COVID on behavioral health and on substance use, because 60% of the time, both behavioral health and substance use are actually co-occurring, right? So they really go hand-in-hand because when you’re prescribed the opioids or whatever it is, these kinds of drugs, it has that effect of getting you to a place where you are now, on top of your behavioral health issues, you’re also addicted to opioids, which can be a real gateway drug. So that, next thing you know, you’re actually on the street, and now you have both of these to deal with.
And so we’ve seen such an uptick in those kinds of cases that we actually committed, just the beginning of this year, to building a substance use disorder treatment center right in the heart of Dearborn that will serve anybody that walks through our doors. And so we’re really looking forward to being able to do that.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, that’s marvelous. There’s something else in Dearborn, this collaboration with the Dearborn Police Department and behavioral health specialist, right? Talk about that because we hear the need for that, but I don’t know that I hear as much. There literally is someone who’s doing it.
Well, that’s marvelous. There’s something else in Dearborn, this collaboration with the Dearborn Police Department and behavioral health specialist, right? Talk about that because we hear the need for that, but I don’t know that I hear as much. There literally is someone who’s doing it.
Lina Harajli:
So for us, the partnership with the police department is something that’s been in place for 10 years. We started with a domestic violence advocate. It then went to behavioral health, and then it went to substance use. How do you make sure that when people come in… Police are not trained to be social workers, they’re police officers, they need to be able to do their job, and then to have the support of individuals that have been trained to handle these kinds of emergencies. And so that was the real partnership that we created.
So for us, the partnership with the police department is something that’s been in place for 10 years. We started with a domestic violence advocate. It then went to behavioral health, and then it went to substance use. How do you make sure that when people come in… Police are not trained to be social workers, they’re police officers, they need to be able to do their job, and then to have the support of individuals that have been trained to handle these kinds of emergencies. And so that was the real partnership that we created.
And it’s something that is just every single police department is reaching out to us now and they’re like, “Hey, can we have this?” She actually rides with the police officer, goes there and creates a actual assessment, is able to determine whether the individual needs actual crime treatment or whether they actually need a health treatment.
And they’re peers. That’s also a really unique nature of what we provide at ACCESS. We believe that the best way to treat people is to know what they’ve already gone through. And so whether it be our peer, whether it be our domestic violence, whether it be our behavioral health, these are individuals that have actually gone through all of this themselves. And so you’re not going to tell them something that they don’t know.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, there are no surprises.
Yeah, there are no surprises.
Lina Harajli:
Definitely.
Definitely.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, the commitment to mental health services is helping people in crisis. I mean, you’re finding that all the time. And so all these things that you’re developing are opening doors for people to find care.
Well, the commitment to mental health services is helping people in crisis. I mean, you’re finding that all the time. And so all these things that you’re developing are opening doors for people to find care.
Lina Harajli:
For us, it’s about community health. When you think about community, the number one thing that they need, how do you be a better individual, a healthy individual, someone who’s actually a member of civil society, if your behavioral health is not a priority? And after COVID, it became even so evident that the realities of mental health services in this country, the infrastructure that is not in place, has really gotten us to a place where we are in emergency mode all the time.
For us, it’s about community health. When you think about community, the number one thing that they need, how do you be a better individual, a healthy individual, someone who’s actually a member of civil society, if your behavioral health is not a priority? And after COVID, it became even so evident that the realities of mental health services in this country, the infrastructure that is not in place, has really gotten us to a place where we are in emergency mode all the time.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Is there something unique to the Arab community that you are seeing, even coming through COVID, is there something that most of us wouldn’t understand that’s going on?
Yeah. Is there something unique to the Arab community that you are seeing, even coming through COVID, is there something that most of us wouldn’t understand that’s going on?
Lina Harajli:
So ACCESS, of course, serves anybody who walks through our doors. We’re really proud to be Arab-led and committed to knowing what the needs of immigrants, refugees, new Americans are. That’s what we were founded by. That’s what we’re still focusing on.
So ACCESS, of course, serves anybody who walks through our doors. We’re really proud to be Arab-led and committed to knowing what the needs of immigrants, refugees, new Americans are. That’s what we were founded by. That’s what we’re still focusing on.
But I think the unique nature for us, as Arab Americans, is the stigma. There’s so much more stigma in our community. And for the longest time, it was “We don’t have that issue.” Ethnic communities in general, “We don’t have those issues.” And so it took us a lot more work to get people okay with saying, “I think my child has this. I think we need counseling. I think we need to come for treatment.” We used to have a back door and made sure that other services were provided. Now, we have a wait list.
So we’re really proud that people are understanding that this is not something to be ashamed of. It’s something that happens to all of us. It’s something that’s normal, and for us, we’re there to provide that support and help.
So we’re really proud that people are understanding that this is not something to be ashamed of. It’s something that happens to all of us. It’s something that’s normal, and for us, we’re there to provide that support and help.
Chuck Gaidica:
So was that rooted a bit in the culture and a bit in the pride issues that come with the great rich traditions of the Arab culture? Is that what that was?
So was that rooted a bit in the culture and a bit in the pride issues that come with the great rich traditions of the Arab culture? Is that what that was?
Lina Harajli:
Absolutely. And so we also have the unfortunate knowledge of being a survivor of torture center. And so for us, a lot of these individuals that come from war-torn countries are already coming in with lots of needs that were not met in that country. And so when they come here and they’re able to get that help, they become…
Absolutely. And so we also have the unfortunate knowledge of being a survivor of torture center. And so for us, a lot of these individuals that come from war-torn countries are already coming in with lots of needs that were not met in that country. And so when they come here and they’re able to get that help, they become…
We just sat in a session with Richard Florida and they talked about ripraps and was saying, “What do we do to make Detroit stronger?” The number one thing he said, “I’m looking at all of these different things.” And I took his research because he said, “We need more immigrants. That’s what you need. You want to bring the population up? You bring more immigrants and they work. They’ll make this culture of the city more rich, and we make sure that the population gets to where we need it in order to be a successful city.”
Chuck Gaidica:
And with your focus on good health and wellness of those immigrants coming in, the stability goes up, right? I mean, just the future looks brighter.
And with your focus on good health and wellness of those immigrants coming in, the stability goes up, right? I mean, just the future looks brighter.
Lina Harajli:
Absolutely. We really are a helping hand to make sure that individuals get that little extra care. We’re really proud that our Detroit Career Center is somewhere that people can walk in. And it’s not just to get you a job, it’s exactly what you just said. You have to make sure their behavioral health needs are met. You have to make sure that their basic needs are met. You have to make sure that they have a job. Then they can focus on their health. They can look at where are those next steps. And we’ve seen so much success in the Dearborn Police Department, the Dearborn Heights Police Department, and all of the schools that we’re partnering with. It really makes a difference in people’s lives.
Absolutely. We really are a helping hand to make sure that individuals get that little extra care. We’re really proud that our Detroit Career Center is somewhere that people can walk in. And it’s not just to get you a job, it’s exactly what you just said. You have to make sure their behavioral health needs are met. You have to make sure that their basic needs are met. You have to make sure that they have a job. Then they can focus on their health. They can look at where are those next steps. And we’ve seen so much success in the Dearborn Police Department, the Dearborn Heights Police Department, and all of the schools that we’re partnering with. It really makes a difference in people’s lives.
Chuck Gaidica:
And you’ve got to be happy to think that this is a generational effect. I mean, mom and dad are stable, and behavioral health is in line. That’s generations to come, which is the future. It’s all those kids.
And you’ve got to be happy to think that this is a generational effect. I mean, mom and dad are stable, and behavioral health is in line. That’s generations to come, which is the future. It’s all those kids.
Lina Harajli:
The story of America is the story of New America’s world. This is a country that was founded on immigration. I mean, that’s how it was started. And so that interwoven fabric of understanding that generation that was here, all those generations is now these Americans. These are the new ones coming in, and that’s all they’re going to do. My kids were born here. And so for them, this generational gap is them understanding the uniqueness of our culture and the beauty of it, but also being so proud to be Arab American and American at the same time.
The story of America is the story of New America’s world. This is a country that was founded on immigration. I mean, that’s how it was started. And so that interwoven fabric of understanding that generation that was here, all those generations is now these Americans. These are the new ones coming in, and that’s all they’re going to do. My kids were born here. And so for them, this generational gap is them understanding the uniqueness of our culture and the beauty of it, but also being so proud to be Arab American and American at the same time.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, we’re happy you dropped by to talk to us.
Well, we’re happy you dropped by to talk to us.
Lina Harajli:
Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Lina Harajli, who’s the Chief Operating Officer of ACCESS, Arab Community Center for Economic and Social Services. Take good care.
Yeah. Lina Harajli, who’s the Chief Operating Officer of ACCESS, Arab Community Center for Economic and Social Services. Take good care.
Lina Harajli:
You too, thank you.
You too, thank you.
Chuck Gaidica:
Thanks for listening to A Healthier Michigan Podcast, brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. If you like our show and you want to know more, check us out at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast or leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcast or Spotify. To get new episodes on your smartphone or tablet, be sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
Thanks for listening to A Healthier Michigan Podcast, brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. If you like our show and you want to know more, check us out at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast or leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcast or Spotify. To get new episodes on your smartphone or tablet, be sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
