How to Recover from Burnout
| 1 min read
00:00
00:00
About the Show
On this episode, Chuck Gaidica is joined by Dr. Kristyn Gregory, medical director of behavioral health for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. Together, they explore ways we can identify and cope with burnout.
In this episode of A Healthier Michigan Podcast, we explore:
- What is burnout and how it differs from other stress-related conditions
- How we can self-evaluate and determine if we are experiencing burnout
- How long it can take to recover from burnout and what factors can influence the duration of recovery
- What steps someone should take if they are seeking help and support for burnout
Transcript
Chuck Gaidica:
Are you feeling helpless, overloaded, underappreciated? If you feel like this most of the time, you may be experiencing burnout. This is A Healthier Michigan Podcast, episode 145. And coming up, we'll discuss the effects of burnout and how to recover from them.
Are you feeling helpless, overloaded, underappreciated? If you feel like this most of the time, you may be experiencing burnout. This is A Healthier Michigan Podcast, episode 145. And coming up, we'll discuss the effects of burnout and how to recover from them.
Welcome to A Healthier Michigan Podcast. This is a podcast that's dedicated to navigating how we can all improve our health and wellbeing through small, healthy habits we can start implementing right now. I'm your host, Chuck Gaidica, and every other week we'll sit down with a certified expert to discuss topics that cover nutrition, fitness, and a whole lot more. And on this episode, we're diving deep into ways that we can identify and cope with burnout. With me today is medical director of behavioral health for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, Dr. Kristyn Gregory. Good to see you again, Doctor.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Good to see you too, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, thanks so much. And I know you've received your medical degree in Chicago from the School of Osteopathic Medicine, and then you had a residency in adult psychiatry at Henry Ford, and then you've worked with children, adolescents. So you've seen the potential for this across all age groups, right? This idea of burnout?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right. All age groups, and within my profession as well. It's a big thing for healthcare professionals.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, some of us think of burnout as stress. And for many of us the other word, that pops in my mind anyway, is resiliency. For some of us, we relate to it as a passing thing. We get stressed, we move on somehow. We deal with it. But if you don't find ways to minimize stress, maybe it's recurring stress, it seems like it can just keep piling up and piling up to the point where we get to that stage of calling it burnout. And we've all been through this. I mean, five kids, seven grandkids, two dogs, me, my wife. I mean, there's a lot of juggling that's going on in families, friendships, business, your workplace. So you can then tend, I think, to maybe not practice self-care, right? You're not thinking about yourself because you're just involved in moments, or you are trying to help everybody else around you. Am I right?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Correct. Yeah. So burnout's that state of emotional, physical, mental exhaustion, and it's caused by excessive stress and prolonged stress. When the stress doesn't stop, it can lead to burnout.
Chuck Gaidica:
And so how can we move forward, and not only identify burnout ... So you've just given us a definition, but also start to find coping mechanisms so we can find a true holistic balance in our life?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Well, you can do that by controlling the stress or finding ways to deal with the stress so it doesn't lead to burnout. Attacking it before it becomes a problem. And that's about wellbeing, right?
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, yeah. And I think we all make that a goal. We can intellectually state it, but then I've got a friend of the family who says, "This is my stress. What am I supposed to do? Leave the people who are causing my stress?" I mean, some people feel like they're literally painted into a corner, right?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Yeah. I mean, when you can't escape from something, it becomes chronic stress and it can become burnout like that. It's very difficult to make time for yourself and practice self-care.
Chuck Gaidica:
So you gave us a definition of burnout, but how is that different from stress-related conditions?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
So stress can be either acute or chronic, right? So an acute stressor might be something like starting a new job or a move. Now, when you have things that ... Socioeconomic issues, poverty, a job that you really, really dislike, and that goes on for a long time, that's chronic stress. And then it can reach a height where it's burnout, when you have that exhaustion.
So some of the differences between stress and burnout. So if you're stressed, it might be over-engagement at your job. But by the time you get to burnout, that'd be characterized by disengagement, where you're just so fried that you're not taking on new tasks. And instead of having these heightened emotions like you do when you're stressed, your emotions might be blunted. And if you're stressed, you might have lower energy. But if you're burned out, you have loss of motivation, ideals, and hope, like you had mentioned earlier.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, you mentioned poverty. It's interesting, because immediately when you said that, I flashed back. And I don't remember the statistics. Someone said you would be amazed at how many children and families in southeast Michigan go to sleep on the floor at night. They don't have a mattress. You think of helping people around you in the best way you can, and you never think that, well, they need to get better sleep so they're not stressed all the time and they're underperforming at school. So it just hits me that when you say that, if you're not getting good sleep for any reason, that can have a cascade effect that goes into burnout and beyond.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Yeah, exactly. Yep.
Chuck Gaidica:
So how to we self-evaluate? What are the ways that we should start thinking? I mean, I think I've probably said it. Maybe you have, and other people, and I've witnessed it. People are kind of operating like a robot, this low energy, I'm just going to work, I'm just punching the clock, I'm going to go. But yet, that can happen in other walks of life outside of your job. So how do we start to self-evaluate that we are entering into chronic stress, which could lead to burnout?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
I think we have to look at your symptoms. And if you're starting to feel down or depressed, or if you're starting to feel those symptoms of hopelessness, if you're having insomnia. If you take an inventory and you're like, "This year, this time, I've found myself drinking more, or being more irritable with those that are close to me, whereas last time at this same time of the year it wasn't like that," then it's a good time to sit down and see what the difference is.
Like you said, there's certain things that you can't necessarily change, right? Poverty. But there are resources available for people that can help. There's definitely resources to talk to people, because how you view a situation ... When you look at it, you might view it as hopeless. And sometimes what it takes is talking about it with somebody else and reframing what's going on and giving you some of your power back. What are some things I can do to change my day-to-day? Where are some free assistance that I can find?
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. And are you talking about ... When you say talk to people, you're talking about a professional, a clinical professional, or even talking to friends?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Yeah. Even talking to friends, because if you were to tell me a story, Chuck, my take on it and what you could do might be different than things that you had thought about as an option. And even your friends can offer to help you get your mind off of things, or help to be a motivator.
So one of the things that can help with stress is exercise. So maybe your friend and you decide that you are going to go for a walk in the morning, with your dogs every morning, and it kind of gets your mind off of the other stress, and start to ... Being out in the neighborhood, noticing things around you, and being able to practice those mindfulness skills, because otherwise, we get inside our own mind. It's on a hamster wheel, over and over and over, and we can't get off. So sometimes, we need somebody else to give us a hand to pull us off the hamster wheel and do something differently.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. I love that idea, because we've seen it with diets or lifestyle change as it's known now, but this idea of each of us having an ability to be an influencer in somebody else's life, to be helpful. And it may just be ... Hey, let's take the dogs for a walk every morning, or I go to the gym at 4:30 in the afternoon after work. Would you like to join me? Those kinds of things that seem pretty natural, and the point of entry is not expensive at all, maybe. And it really can be helpful.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right. And then it helps you and the other person be accountable, right?
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. For many, this idea of getting into burnout and then withdrawing doesn't even offer them that opportunity of trying to find help from their circle of friends. So then what?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
So then it might be time to look into professional help, be it with a counselor or even ... If it's related to your job, if you have a good EAP, they can offer a lot of assistance too.
Chuck Gaidica:
EAP is what?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Employee assistance program at people's work.
Chuck Gaidica:
Okay.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
They can offer all kinds, from short-term therapy sessions to bridging the gap between you and your supervisor/leader. But a lot of times, I think ... The job, you can really change the narrative by being open with your own experiences and looking into that, and basically saying it's okay to not be okay. It's okay to ask for help.
Chuck Gaidica:
When you're looking to put distance between yourself and the stressors that you have in your life, what is your suggestion for ... This may not involve family therapy or therapists at all, but what is your suggestion of how honest you need to be, especially when those stressors are other people and their behaviors? Do you need to say, "I'm trying to be better. I need you to stop what you're doing." What do you do when you need to deal with them? Because just getting in your car and driving away I suppose could be helpful, but at what point ... In all truth, we all have that option of being honest or polite. And when it comes to now it's affecting you dramatically, what is your suggestion of how we put distance between us and the stressor?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
I think that you can put up boundaries and still be polite. You could say something like, "I'm really trying to work on myself, or reduce my own stress. So I want to be there for you, but we're going to have to table this for the time being." And I think a lot of times we get in our head that in order to be a good person, you have to take this all on, but sometimes self-care is being a little selfish. And that's okay, because you're not going to be able to help anybody else if you're feeling all these things inside. So it's a difficult thing to do. And I think it takes a lot of practice as well, to set those boundaries. And when I've seen people set boundaries, because you have people who set boundaries with me too, it didn't upset me. I wasn't mad at them. I was like, "Wow." That was a very effective way to do that, to say, "I have a meeting now, and I'd be glad to talk with you about this this time, but I can't do it right now."
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, that's a very difficult position to be in, because many times, the stressors in your life could be people or things immediately around you, like your job. And we're talking about these things that are inanimate, but they can still be stressors. And it would seem like once you're into a deep period of burnout, that can also manifest itself physically as well, not just a mental health issue. Ulcer or who knows what, right?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Yeah, exactly. So chronic stress ... Because stress influences cortisol levels. So higher than normal cortisol levels over time can affect your physical health as well. It can affect your blood pressure. It can affect your GI symptoms. You can have chronic stomach aches, chronic headaches, problems managing your diabetes, if you have diabetes.
Chuck Gaidica:
When you're in the throes of what you've classified by your definition as burnout, how long can it take to recover from that? I know it's going to be based on context, but I'm going to assume that we need to be patient with ourselves, that this may not be fixed by tomorrow.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right, yeah. I would say that if it's a problem that's been going on for months or years, then it's probably not going to resolve in two to three days. But taking those little steps, you can have little improvements. And over the period of a week, maybe you notice a little change. And maybe the little changes, that you're able to take time for self-care, or you were able to say no to people that asked you to do stuff appropriately, and so maybe that's the change. And incrementally, over time, those little changes add up. They're additive.
Chuck Gaidica:
And those little changes may have to be things that you attack in various points of your life. I'm thinking, just as we've started talking here on this podcast ... So if you're saying that stress can lead to burnout, burnout can lead to withdrawing and other practices. Maybe you now start overeating. Maybe you undereat, right? Maybe you don't sleep as well. There are so many places these points of light can pop up in your life, where not only do you have to be patient about removing the stressors, but those stressors may have affected other places in your life that you need to take stock in.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right, exactly. And I think some of the little things that you do, you might feel an immediate boost from, if you stop and think about it. So maybe if you went for a walk, you felt a sense of relief, at least for that 15 minutes. But I think people tend to get discouraged, because then the walk's over and then all this stuff is going on. But you had that 15-minute reprieve. So what it's teaching you is that there is hope, right? And that you can have longer and longer reprieves from it. I'm not insinuating you should go for a walk for 24 hours, but little things do add up. And if you look at it, as opposed to glass being half empty ... Yes, I'm still stressed, but I did feel better for 15 minutes when I did this today. So maybe if I do other things like that, then that will continue to be additive, and continue to make me feel better overall.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. And we've done so many great podcast episodes with experts that have encouraged us that movement ... We're talking about going for a walk. And this episode's going to drop when the weather's changing, and all of a sudden, hey ... It comes around every year, winter's here. But we've got so many ways to either walk in our workplace, or walk while we're on a call, a business call, or otherwise, at home, if that's where you're working from. So I want to encourage everybody and myself that this idea of movement doesn't necessarily mean we have to go out in the middle of an ice storm. You could, if you're inclined, I guess.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Physical movement really resets you. I mean, if I'm on a work call and I'm stressed, sometimes I'll do squats or I'll do jumping jacks.
Chuck Gaidica:
No kidding. Yeah.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Or some kind of physical thing to reset and not be all in my head anymore. And it really gets me focused on my muscle memory, muscle movement, as opposed to ... Oh, yeah. I'll do squats all the time in a bad meeting.
Chuck Gaidica:
Isn't that interesting? Yeah. And nobody is the wiser on the other end of the call, right? They don't know.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right. Yeah, because it's not a video call. But yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Right. Right. Well, that's interesting. And there's a quote that ... And I'm probably going to mess it up. And I've seen it before, and I think it's so profound. I think it's Anne Lamott, who's an author. And she says, "Everything will still function after it's been unplugged and you plug it back in." The analogy is kind of like a vacuum cleaner. If you unplug it, guess what? Tomorrow, it'll still work when you plug it back in. And the same, I think, of myself and others around me. If you unplug for a day and just practice a little self-care and do things that are good for you, you'll work again tomorrow when you plug back in. Just find some way to bring it all down.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right. To notice something different than what you're focused on, whether it be ... I'm looking outside the window right now and the leaves, they're a really pretty orange and yellow. And just to focus on something and describe that in your own mind, too, can get you from stopping whatever the intrusive thoughts you're having and intrusive worries.
Chuck Gaidica:
So when you suggest that it's almost, because you're the doctor, you're writing a prescription. Look at the leaves, right? But are you classifying that as something you do that's like practicing gratitude? Is it a combination of something more complicated, even though it seems like a simple practice?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
I think it's more mindfulness. I think it's mindfulness. I mean, you could look at it as gratitude. You can look at the things that you have gratitude for, but I think sometimes just noticing things and noticing beauty, or wherever it might be, can really get you out of your own head space.
Chuck Gaidica:
So go back for us, if you will, anything else you haven't discussed yet. What steps should someone take if they're seeking help now, whether it's in their circle or going wider to professionals in trying to get help and support for burnout?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
I think finding somebody that you can trust, if you're going to reach out to your friends. You can use internet sources to find out more information. Behavioral health websites, NAMI, SAMHSA, even the CDC has things on stress and burnout. Just to get more information, as you might want to see, is this what's going on with me? Is this what I'm having? And can I take an inventory? What do we think might be causing it? What are the things that I can do to address it? Short-term, long-term? And then make a plan. And maybe part of the plan is reaching out to a therapist. Maybe part of the plan is working on sleep hygiene and making sure that you go to bed at a regular hour so you're not tired the next day. Work on mindfulness and relaxation exercises can all be part of a plan, but start small. Don't have this overarching ... I'm going to be better by X day. But to really break it down into little pieces.
Chuck Gaidica:
That idea of starting small, just starting something. If you don't start it, you can't begin it. I mean, it seems like it's such a simple idea, but sometimes just putting the one foot in front of the other, whether it's literally a walk-
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
You get paralyzed. Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. You just feel like ... Well, I can't start. No, you can. And we've talked about this in previous episodes too, this notion of some self-grace, right? Giving yourself a little grace that, yeah, it may take a minute. It's okay. You're moving. You're going forward. So be encouraged. Well, Doctor, it's good to see you.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
You too, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Thanks so much for all the help on this. Dr. Kristyn Gregory, who's a medical director of behavioral health for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. We're glad she joined us. We're glad you've been listening to A Healthier Michigan Podcast. It's brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan.
If you like the show, you want to know more, check out our newly refreshed website online at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast. You can leave us a review or a rating on Apple Podcast or Spotify. You can pick us up on YouTube now. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. And you can get all the new episodes, all the old episodes too, because there's so much of what we discussed today that will show up in some other episodes about holistic healing and all the rest. Check us out on your smartphone, tablet. Take us with you on your walk when you're trying to get a break. And be sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. I'm Chuck Gaidica. Stay well.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Good to see you too, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah, thanks so much. And I know you've received your medical degree in Chicago from the School of Osteopathic Medicine, and then you had a residency in adult psychiatry at Henry Ford, and then you've worked with children, adolescents. So you've seen the potential for this across all age groups, right? This idea of burnout?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right. All age groups, and within my profession as well. It's a big thing for healthcare professionals.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, some of us think of burnout as stress. And for many of us the other word, that pops in my mind anyway, is resiliency. For some of us, we relate to it as a passing thing. We get stressed, we move on somehow. We deal with it. But if you don't find ways to minimize stress, maybe it's recurring stress, it seems like it can just keep piling up and piling up to the point where we get to that stage of calling it burnout. And we've all been through this. I mean, five kids, seven grandkids, two dogs, me, my wife. I mean, there's a lot of juggling that's going on in families, friendships, business, your workplace. So you can then tend, I think, to maybe not practice self-care, right? You're not thinking about yourself because you're just involved in moments, or you are trying to help everybody else around you. Am I right?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Correct. Yeah. So burnout's that state of emotional, physical, mental exhaustion, and it's caused by excessive stress and prolonged stress. When the stress doesn't stop, it can lead to burnout.
Chuck Gaidica:
And so how can we move forward, and not only identify burnout ... So you've just given us a definition, but also start to find coping mechanisms so we can find a true holistic balance in our life?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Well, you can do that by controlling the stress or finding ways to deal with the stress so it doesn't lead to burnout. Attacking it before it becomes a problem. And that's about wellbeing, right?
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, yeah. And I think we all make that a goal. We can intellectually state it, but then I've got a friend of the family who says, "This is my stress. What am I supposed to do? Leave the people who are causing my stress?" I mean, some people feel like they're literally painted into a corner, right?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Yeah. I mean, when you can't escape from something, it becomes chronic stress and it can become burnout like that. It's very difficult to make time for yourself and practice self-care.
Chuck Gaidica:
So you gave us a definition of burnout, but how is that different from stress-related conditions?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
So stress can be either acute or chronic, right? So an acute stressor might be something like starting a new job or a move. Now, when you have things that ... Socioeconomic issues, poverty, a job that you really, really dislike, and that goes on for a long time, that's chronic stress. And then it can reach a height where it's burnout, when you have that exhaustion.
So some of the differences between stress and burnout. So if you're stressed, it might be over-engagement at your job. But by the time you get to burnout, that'd be characterized by disengagement, where you're just so fried that you're not taking on new tasks. And instead of having these heightened emotions like you do when you're stressed, your emotions might be blunted. And if you're stressed, you might have lower energy. But if you're burned out, you have loss of motivation, ideals, and hope, like you had mentioned earlier.
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, you mentioned poverty. It's interesting, because immediately when you said that, I flashed back. And I don't remember the statistics. Someone said you would be amazed at how many children and families in southeast Michigan go to sleep on the floor at night. They don't have a mattress. You think of helping people around you in the best way you can, and you never think that, well, they need to get better sleep so they're not stressed all the time and they're underperforming at school. So it just hits me that when you say that, if you're not getting good sleep for any reason, that can have a cascade effect that goes into burnout and beyond.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Yeah, exactly. Yep.
Chuck Gaidica:
So how to we self-evaluate? What are the ways that we should start thinking? I mean, I think I've probably said it. Maybe you have, and other people, and I've witnessed it. People are kind of operating like a robot, this low energy, I'm just going to work, I'm just punching the clock, I'm going to go. But yet, that can happen in other walks of life outside of your job. So how do we start to self-evaluate that we are entering into chronic stress, which could lead to burnout?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
I think we have to look at your symptoms. And if you're starting to feel down or depressed, or if you're starting to feel those symptoms of hopelessness, if you're having insomnia. If you take an inventory and you're like, "This year, this time, I've found myself drinking more, or being more irritable with those that are close to me, whereas last time at this same time of the year it wasn't like that," then it's a good time to sit down and see what the difference is.
Like you said, there's certain things that you can't necessarily change, right? Poverty. But there are resources available for people that can help. There's definitely resources to talk to people, because how you view a situation ... When you look at it, you might view it as hopeless. And sometimes what it takes is talking about it with somebody else and reframing what's going on and giving you some of your power back. What are some things I can do to change my day-to-day? Where are some free assistance that I can find?
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. And are you talking about ... When you say talk to people, you're talking about a professional, a clinical professional, or even talking to friends?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Yeah. Even talking to friends, because if you were to tell me a story, Chuck, my take on it and what you could do might be different than things that you had thought about as an option. And even your friends can offer to help you get your mind off of things, or help to be a motivator.
So one of the things that can help with stress is exercise. So maybe your friend and you decide that you are going to go for a walk in the morning, with your dogs every morning, and it kind of gets your mind off of the other stress, and start to ... Being out in the neighborhood, noticing things around you, and being able to practice those mindfulness skills, because otherwise, we get inside our own mind. It's on a hamster wheel, over and over and over, and we can't get off. So sometimes, we need somebody else to give us a hand to pull us off the hamster wheel and do something differently.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. I love that idea, because we've seen it with diets or lifestyle change as it's known now, but this idea of each of us having an ability to be an influencer in somebody else's life, to be helpful. And it may just be ... Hey, let's take the dogs for a walk every morning, or I go to the gym at 4:30 in the afternoon after work. Would you like to join me? Those kinds of things that seem pretty natural, and the point of entry is not expensive at all, maybe. And it really can be helpful.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right. And then it helps you and the other person be accountable, right?
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. For many, this idea of getting into burnout and then withdrawing doesn't even offer them that opportunity of trying to find help from their circle of friends. So then what?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
So then it might be time to look into professional help, be it with a counselor or even ... If it's related to your job, if you have a good EAP, they can offer a lot of assistance too.
Chuck Gaidica:
EAP is what?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Employee assistance program at people's work.
Chuck Gaidica:
Okay.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
They can offer all kinds, from short-term therapy sessions to bridging the gap between you and your supervisor/leader. But a lot of times, I think ... The job, you can really change the narrative by being open with your own experiences and looking into that, and basically saying it's okay to not be okay. It's okay to ask for help.
Chuck Gaidica:
When you're looking to put distance between yourself and the stressors that you have in your life, what is your suggestion for ... This may not involve family therapy or therapists at all, but what is your suggestion of how honest you need to be, especially when those stressors are other people and their behaviors? Do you need to say, "I'm trying to be better. I need you to stop what you're doing." What do you do when you need to deal with them? Because just getting in your car and driving away I suppose could be helpful, but at what point ... In all truth, we all have that option of being honest or polite. And when it comes to now it's affecting you dramatically, what is your suggestion of how we put distance between us and the stressor?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
I think that you can put up boundaries and still be polite. You could say something like, "I'm really trying to work on myself, or reduce my own stress. So I want to be there for you, but we're going to have to table this for the time being." And I think a lot of times we get in our head that in order to be a good person, you have to take this all on, but sometimes self-care is being a little selfish. And that's okay, because you're not going to be able to help anybody else if you're feeling all these things inside. So it's a difficult thing to do. And I think it takes a lot of practice as well, to set those boundaries. And when I've seen people set boundaries, because you have people who set boundaries with me too, it didn't upset me. I wasn't mad at them. I was like, "Wow." That was a very effective way to do that, to say, "I have a meeting now, and I'd be glad to talk with you about this this time, but I can't do it right now."
Chuck Gaidica:
Well, that's a very difficult position to be in, because many times, the stressors in your life could be people or things immediately around you, like your job. And we're talking about these things that are inanimate, but they can still be stressors. And it would seem like once you're into a deep period of burnout, that can also manifest itself physically as well, not just a mental health issue. Ulcer or who knows what, right?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Yeah, exactly. So chronic stress ... Because stress influences cortisol levels. So higher than normal cortisol levels over time can affect your physical health as well. It can affect your blood pressure. It can affect your GI symptoms. You can have chronic stomach aches, chronic headaches, problems managing your diabetes, if you have diabetes.
Chuck Gaidica:
When you're in the throes of what you've classified by your definition as burnout, how long can it take to recover from that? I know it's going to be based on context, but I'm going to assume that we need to be patient with ourselves, that this may not be fixed by tomorrow.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right, yeah. I would say that if it's a problem that's been going on for months or years, then it's probably not going to resolve in two to three days. But taking those little steps, you can have little improvements. And over the period of a week, maybe you notice a little change. And maybe the little changes, that you're able to take time for self-care, or you were able to say no to people that asked you to do stuff appropriately, and so maybe that's the change. And incrementally, over time, those little changes add up. They're additive.
Chuck Gaidica:
And those little changes may have to be things that you attack in various points of your life. I'm thinking, just as we've started talking here on this podcast ... So if you're saying that stress can lead to burnout, burnout can lead to withdrawing and other practices. Maybe you now start overeating. Maybe you undereat, right? Maybe you don't sleep as well. There are so many places these points of light can pop up in your life, where not only do you have to be patient about removing the stressors, but those stressors may have affected other places in your life that you need to take stock in.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right, exactly. And I think some of the little things that you do, you might feel an immediate boost from, if you stop and think about it. So maybe if you went for a walk, you felt a sense of relief, at least for that 15 minutes. But I think people tend to get discouraged, because then the walk's over and then all this stuff is going on. But you had that 15-minute reprieve. So what it's teaching you is that there is hope, right? And that you can have longer and longer reprieves from it. I'm not insinuating you should go for a walk for 24 hours, but little things do add up. And if you look at it, as opposed to glass being half empty ... Yes, I'm still stressed, but I did feel better for 15 minutes when I did this today. So maybe if I do other things like that, then that will continue to be additive, and continue to make me feel better overall.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. And we've done so many great podcast episodes with experts that have encouraged us that movement ... We're talking about going for a walk. And this episode's going to drop when the weather's changing, and all of a sudden, hey ... It comes around every year, winter's here. But we've got so many ways to either walk in our workplace, or walk while we're on a call, a business call, or otherwise, at home, if that's where you're working from. So I want to encourage everybody and myself that this idea of movement doesn't necessarily mean we have to go out in the middle of an ice storm. You could, if you're inclined, I guess.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Physical movement really resets you. I mean, if I'm on a work call and I'm stressed, sometimes I'll do squats or I'll do jumping jacks.
Chuck Gaidica:
No kidding. Yeah.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Or some kind of physical thing to reset and not be all in my head anymore. And it really gets me focused on my muscle memory, muscle movement, as opposed to ... Oh, yeah. I'll do squats all the time in a bad meeting.
Chuck Gaidica:
Isn't that interesting? Yeah. And nobody is the wiser on the other end of the call, right? They don't know.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right. Yeah, because it's not a video call. But yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Right. Right. Well, that's interesting. And there's a quote that ... And I'm probably going to mess it up. And I've seen it before, and I think it's so profound. I think it's Anne Lamott, who's an author. And she says, "Everything will still function after it's been unplugged and you plug it back in." The analogy is kind of like a vacuum cleaner. If you unplug it, guess what? Tomorrow, it'll still work when you plug it back in. And the same, I think, of myself and others around me. If you unplug for a day and just practice a little self-care and do things that are good for you, you'll work again tomorrow when you plug back in. Just find some way to bring it all down.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
Right. To notice something different than what you're focused on, whether it be ... I'm looking outside the window right now and the leaves, they're a really pretty orange and yellow. And just to focus on something and describe that in your own mind, too, can get you from stopping whatever the intrusive thoughts you're having and intrusive worries.
Chuck Gaidica:
So when you suggest that it's almost, because you're the doctor, you're writing a prescription. Look at the leaves, right? But are you classifying that as something you do that's like practicing gratitude? Is it a combination of something more complicated, even though it seems like a simple practice?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
I think it's more mindfulness. I think it's mindfulness. I mean, you could look at it as gratitude. You can look at the things that you have gratitude for, but I think sometimes just noticing things and noticing beauty, or wherever it might be, can really get you out of your own head space.
Chuck Gaidica:
So go back for us, if you will, anything else you haven't discussed yet. What steps should someone take if they're seeking help now, whether it's in their circle or going wider to professionals in trying to get help and support for burnout?
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
I think finding somebody that you can trust, if you're going to reach out to your friends. You can use internet sources to find out more information. Behavioral health websites, NAMI, SAMHSA, even the CDC has things on stress and burnout. Just to get more information, as you might want to see, is this what's going on with me? Is this what I'm having? And can I take an inventory? What do we think might be causing it? What are the things that I can do to address it? Short-term, long-term? And then make a plan. And maybe part of the plan is reaching out to a therapist. Maybe part of the plan is working on sleep hygiene and making sure that you go to bed at a regular hour so you're not tired the next day. Work on mindfulness and relaxation exercises can all be part of a plan, but start small. Don't have this overarching ... I'm going to be better by X day. But to really break it down into little pieces.
Chuck Gaidica:
That idea of starting small, just starting something. If you don't start it, you can't begin it. I mean, it seems like it's such a simple idea, but sometimes just putting the one foot in front of the other, whether it's literally a walk-
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
You get paralyzed. Yeah.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. You just feel like ... Well, I can't start. No, you can. And we've talked about this in previous episodes too, this notion of some self-grace, right? Giving yourself a little grace that, yeah, it may take a minute. It's okay. You're moving. You're going forward. So be encouraged. Well, Doctor, it's good to see you.
Dr. Kristyn Gregory:
You too, Chuck.
Chuck Gaidica:
Yeah. Thanks so much for all the help on this. Dr. Kristyn Gregory, who's a medical director of behavioral health for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. We're glad she joined us. We're glad you've been listening to A Healthier Michigan Podcast. It's brought to you by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan.
If you like the show, you want to know more, check out our newly refreshed website online at ahealthiermichigan.org/podcast. You can leave us a review or a rating on Apple Podcast or Spotify. You can pick us up on YouTube now. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter. And you can get all the new episodes, all the old episodes too, because there's so much of what we discussed today that will show up in some other episodes about holistic healing and all the rest. Check us out on your smartphone, tablet. Take us with you on your walk when you're trying to get a break. And be sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. I'm Chuck Gaidica. Stay well.
